2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:23 pm  

Is it only me that thinks the RFL are losing credibility (even more so) due to the constant merry go round regarding the proposed league structure. I'm actually pleased that a RL man and fan of the game has spoken out and tried to get the RFL to see sense. A change may be needed but the proposal regarding splitting the leagues up after a number of rounds to form 3 separate leagues is not what the clubs or the fans want. What are the teams playing for in leagues 2 and 3, to be middle champs or bottom champs(ooo er)? http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12204/8962874/super-league-clubs-voice-opposition-to-rfls-restructuring-plans

Is it only me that thinks the RFL are losing credibility (even more so) due to the constant merry go round regarding the proposed league structure. I'm actually pleased that a RL man and fan of the game has spoken out and tried to get the RFL to see sense. A change may be needed but the proposal regarding splitting the leagues up after a number of rounds to form 3 separate leagues is not what the clubs or the fans want. What are the teams playing for in leagues 2 and 3, to be middle champs or bottom champs(ooo er)? http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12204/8962874/super-league-clubs-voice-opposition-to-rfls-restructuring-plans

[Bullseye]

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:03 pm  

There’s a good thread on the virtual terrace board about this.

IMO the current problem in the game as a whole is a lack of money. There’s a lack of sponsorship from outside and on the inside the supporters have a finite amount of it and both have been through the worst recession since the 1930s. As a result many parts of the game are suffering. The latest plan to tinker with the league structure seems to be fiddling around the edges and not really do anything that will address the main problem - a lack of money in the game.

Will 3x12s or 4x8s or any other scheme cause sponsors to get on board that aren’t already? Will fans go to more games? I don’t think it’ll have much effect.

What the game needs is pull together and ensure that all parts of it are complementing each other from tag rugby, student RL, Amateur, Championship, SL and International. There’s no quick easy fix to the problem of being skint but we know the problems and the solutions aren’t difficult to find.

We need fixture lists that complement each other that don’t leave clubs out of pocket. We need an international programme that fans and players want to take part in to get the media and people outside interested (club games don’t sell outside the north). We need to spread the game to new places to attract new fans and players. Some of that requires money, some of it just requires common sense and a willingness to put self interest aside. If the game can show itself to be of interest to more than a few thousand people in the north of England it will get new sponsors and get out of this mess. If it retreats further into itself then it’s doomed.

Trouble is RL is riven with self interest. I only hope the SL clubs don’t decide to go it alone, they tried that in 1997 and it did more harm than good.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:12 pm  

daveyz999 wrote: Is it only me that thinks the RFL are losing credibility (even more so) due to the constant merry go round regarding the proposed league structure. I'm actually pleased that a RL man and fan of the game has spoken out and tried to get the RFL to see sense. A change may be needed but the proposal regarding splitting the leagues up after a number of rounds to form 3 separate leagues is not what the clubs or the fans want. What are the teams playing for in leagues 2 and 3, to be middle champs or bottom champs(ooo er)? http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12204/8962874/super-league-clubs-voice-opposition-to-rfls-restructuring-plans To be honest the more I think about the whole 3 groups thing, the more I think it's a good idea, from a fan's point of view. You play your weekly rounds, the top 8 in SL go into one group to play off for the SL title. The bottom 4 from SL and top 4 from the Championship play off to be in SL the following season (ie whoever finishes in the top 4 spots of those 8 teams after this "playoff" are in SL next year.) Admittedly this leaves the bottom 8 in the Championship with nothing to play for, but even now theres a lot of teams with nothing to play for by that time of the season anyway. From a fans point of view, so long as your team finishes in the top 2 groups, you have something to play for all year, you end up with more matches to go to (presumably generating more income for the clubs involved) and keeps things exciting. I'm no businessman though, so I'm not sure how this would effect the Game's finances as a whole, which is obviously an important point to think about. Edit: This all depends obviously on how many teams are in each league, 3x8's or however many you'd need to split it into.

daveyz999 wrote: Is it only me that thinks the RFL are losing credibility (even more so) due to the constant merry go round regarding the proposed league structure. I'm actually pleased that a RL man and fan of the game has spoken out and tried to get the RFL to see sense. A change may be needed but the proposal regarding splitting the leagues up after a number of rounds to form 3 separate leagues is not what the clubs or the fans want. What are the teams playing for in leagues 2 and 3, to be middle champs or bottom champs(ooo er)? http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12204/8962874/super-league-clubs-voice-opposition-to-rfls-restructuring-plans To be honest the more I think about the whole 3 groups thing, the more I think it's a good idea, from a fan's point of view. You play your weekly rounds, the top 8 in SL go into one group to play off for the SL title. The bottom 4 from SL and top 4 from the Championship play off to be in SL the following season (ie whoever finishes in the top 4 spots of those 8 teams after this "playoff" are in SL next year.) Admittedly this leaves the bottom 8 in the Championship with nothing to play for, but even now theres a lot of teams with nothing to play for by that time of the season anyway. From a fans point of view, so long as your team finishes in the top 2 groups, you have something to play for all year, you end up with more matches to go to (presumably generating more income for the clubs involved) and keeps things exciting. I'm no businessman though, so I'm not sure how this would effect the Game's finances as a whole, which is obviously an important point to think about. Edit: This all depends obviously on how many teams are in each league, 3x8's or however many you'd need to split it into.

[Bulliac]

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:39 pm  

SombreroBu11 wrote:

To be honest the more I think about the whole 3 groups thing, the more I think it's a good idea, from a fan's point of view.

You play your weekly rounds, the top 8 in SL go into one group to play off for the SL title. The bottom 4 from SL and top 4 from the Championship play off to be in SL the following season (ie whoever finishes in the top 4 spots of those 8 teams after this "playoff" are in SL next year.)

Won't work though, will it?

I mean, as a way of keeping the status quo you couldn't better a system where fully pro teams on a £1.8 million cap play off against part timers who can only pay [what is it, around £600K?] If the whole bottom four are included in the play off it means that some kind of league format is will have to be used, which again is going to be to the benefit of the pro sides as it will make any 'giant killing' result worth less than it might have been a straight knock-out system.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:14 pm  

Well I am going to be really selfish; this should safely see possibility of relegation chucked through the windows of Red Hall. COYB.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:29 pm  

It's going to be hard to sell season tickets to clubs in and around 8th, such as ourselves, if the 2x12 then 3x8 system comes in, as we won't know which teams we're playing in the second part of the season. I'd rather play the likes of St Helens and Leeds than Batley and Sheffield. In effect, you'd be buying a season ticket without knowing what your fixtures are for a part of the season.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:13 pm  

BullCharge wrote:

It's going to be hard to sell season tickets to clubs in and around 8th, such as ourselves, if the 2x12 then 3x8 system comes in, as we won't know which teams we're playing in the second part of the season. I'd rather play the likes of St Helens and Leeds than Batley and Sheffield. In effect, you'd be buying a season ticket without knowing what your fixtures are for a part of the season.

Think under current favored proposal you play league you start season in home and away. So basically same as now but with only 12 teams instead of 14. Where it differs is you then go into a league to determine either league your in following year, in case of middle group of eight, albeit you only play each of other teams once, or play other seven top teams once to determine which four go into playoff series which is effectively just a pair of semis and a grand final. Bottom group of eight is only one with nothing to play for unless they bring in some form of p&r for bottom end of that group too.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:21 pm  

mat wrote:

Think under current favored proposal you play league you start season in home and away. So basically same as now but with only 12 teams instead of 14. Where it differs is you then go into a league to determine either league your in following year, in case of middle group of eight, albeit you only play each of other teams once, or play other seven top teams once to determine which four go into playoff series which is effectively just a pair of semis and a grand final. Bottom group of eight is only one with nothing to play for unless they bring in some form of p&r for bottom end of that group too.

Yes the bulk of the season is the home and away fixtures in the division of 12. I'm not a fan of playing each of the other 7 teams once. Some home games would generate more revenue than others depending on away supporters. I'd prefer a nice simple, promotion and relegation system.

[Bulliac]

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:31 am  

BullCharge wrote:

It's going to be hard to sell season tickets to clubs in and around 8th, such as ourselves, if the 2x12 then 3x8 system comes in, as we won't know which teams we're playing in the second part of the season. I'd rather play the likes of St Helens and Leeds than Batley and Sheffield. In effect, you'd be buying a season ticket without knowing what your fixtures are for a part of the season.

Yeah, agree with that.

As I pointed out previously, you can't seriously have a league where some clubs are training full time and paying a near £2 million, playing against part-timers. It's rubbish and the fans will see it as rubbish. I'd rather have games against the likes of Wigan and Saints etc, where yes, we may well lose more than we win, but quality, competitive football like that is infinitely better than than games where we run up silly scores against lower level opposition.

Re: 2015 and beyond.... : Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am  

Bulliac wrote:

Yeah, agree with that.

As I pointed out previously, you can't seriously have a league where some clubs are training full time and paying a near £2 million, playing against part-timers. It's rubbish and the fans will see it as rubbish. I'd rather have games against the likes of Wigan and Saints etc, where yes, we may well lose more than we win, but quality, competitive football like that is infinitely better than than games where we run up silly scores against lower level opposition.

I get your point but if we're in the bottom 4 of the top 12 maybe we're not competitive with Sts and Wigan and actually we're closer to the top group of clubs in the bottom 12. As it's a one off game against each of the top 4 from the bottom 12 who's to say how close those will be, assuming to get in the top 4 those clubs will have been playing well and are high on confidence while the bottom 4 will have been playing badly and low on confidence.