Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:56 am  

So we're bottom of our league and playing poop.

Fev have just sacked Jon Sharp, despite seeming on paper (and Fevgrinder will correct me if i'm wrong) him getting them two very good years in the Championship; consecutive finishing in top four, got to Challenge cup quarter finals, and currently sat 3rd in table.

John Duffy has given his notice in at Swinton (probably going to Fev)

Matt Diskin has turned Dewsbury round - from floundering just above us and not able to beat anyone, now they're 8th in the table and have won more games than Rochdale, Oldham, Swinton and us.

Then you look at Wakei who were in that unforgettable (for the wrong reasons) Million pound game against us - at the time they were struggling but (and no disrespect to Wakei) they were pretty similar standard to us.
Now they're in the top four of Super league, and playing some very good rugby.

So I'm thinking - how come other teams who were struggling and playing pretty poop like us - can improve so much and yet we just keep getting worse. I'm not asking why we are cr@p, we could write 50 pages on that. I'm just wondering what makes similar teams play so much better and actually win games - is it the player, the coach or both - and if the latter, why arent we getting any better?

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:36 am  

Just to say Matt Diskin is Batley. Neil Kelly is Dewsbury - but yeah, he's turned around their season.

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:49 am  

It's that long since I can't remember.

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:58 am  

On a more serious note it can be all three of your suggestions. We have had problems with coaches (Macca and Lowes), we have had problems with players, we have had problems with coaches and players at the same time. But obviously the reason we are getting worse is our lack of funds. This is not a lack in terms of having to SELL our better players but going into Admin meaning our better players could virtually walk away.

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:07 am  

rugbyreddog wrote:

On a more serious note it can be all three of your suggestions. We have had problems with coaches (Macca and Lowes), we have had problems with players, we have had problems with coaches and players at the same time. But obviously the reason we are getting worse is our lack of funds. This is not a lack in terms of having to SELL our better players but going into Admin meaning our better players could virtually walk away.

Your last point is the most valid yet. If we had started this season with Rohan and his squad in place I firmly believe without doubt we would have been up there with Hull KR. I also feel we would have had a better pack than them and would have had every chance of finishing top of the tree.

I dont think any blame can lay with Toovey this season. His hands have been tied up until now with a mixture of very inexperienced players, very poor players and one very ageing player who's body was ready for the knackers yard.

Next season wherever it may be will show his style when hopefully he can assemble a squad he will be accountable for and see where we go from there

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:13 am  

Had ChaLo been pragmatic about Rohan at the time, we might have gone better this year - they made a mistake not offering Chisholm a deal and in my view not giving Rohan some time to prove he was the real deal.

Would have still been difficult without the players we lost, but at least those that were left had been working with him upto liquidation.

I'm sure AC will know he's made a few mistakes and leaving us without a head coach for most of the season will be the one that tells when we're relegated.

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:43 am  

thepimp007 wrote:

Your last point is the most valid yet. If we had started this season with Rohan and his squad in place I firmly believe without doubt we would have been up there with Hull KR. I also feel we would have had a better pack than them and would have had every chance of finishing top of the tree.

I dont think any blame can lay with Toovey this season. His hands have been tied up until now with a mixture of very inexperienced players, very poor players and one very ageing player who's body was ready for the knackers yard.

Next season wherever it may be will show his style when hopefully he can assemble a squad he will be accountable for and see where we go from there

This could never have happened though. That squad - including Rohan as coach - was built using money we never had and could never realistically afford!

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:31 am  

Nothus wrote:

This could never have happened though. That squad - including Rohan as coach - was built using money we never had and could never realistically afford!

Without a doubt haha, but did David Thorne not offer to tupe all contracts of that squad over when he met them all at cue gardens?

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:39 am  

thepimp007 wrote:

Next season wherever it may be will show his style when hopefully he can assemble a squad he will be accountable for and see where we go from there

That's assuming Toovey will actually be our coach next season.

[Bulliac]

Re: Who wins games - Players or Coach? : Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:48 am  

Nothus wrote:

This could never have happened though. That squad - including Rohan as coach - was built using money we never had and could never realistically afford!

Not sure that's exactly true.

Obviously, I've no more actual real idea of the of how the cost stacked up than you or anyone else on here, other than them being, as a whole, too much, of course. 'As a whole', is the point though. One thing everyone agreed on after the season before last is that the squad was way too large. Then, knock us all down with a feather, what did they do for last season(after telling us we were going to get a 'leaner' squad) but give us an even bigger one.

It's impossible to say for sure, but it's far from impossible that, if all the players who never pulled on a shirt or played just a couple of games had never been added to the payroll, we may well have been able to afford a 'realistic' squad, based on Rohan and the regular (say 24) team members from last season. Those ridiculously enormous squads were certainly one our biggest, self inflicted, blights of the last two years.