Northern Vs Southern Hemisphere : Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:37 pm  

This RLWC is demonstrating how far behind the Southern Hemisphere teams the Northern Hemisphere teams are, even the Pacific island nations look stronger than us - Kear's comments about training facilities were really interesting.

As long as I've been watching RL (over 40 years), we've been chasing the Aussies, what does it take for us to catch up?

An England win versus PNG is going to be well earned!

Re: Northern Vs Southern Hemisphere : Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:02 pm  

Frank Whitcombe wrote:

This RLWC is demonstrating how far behind the Southern Hemisphere teams the Northern Hemisphere teams are, even the Pacific island nations look stronger than us - Kear's comments about training facilities were really interesting.

As long as I've been watching RL (over 40 years), we've been chasing the Aussies, what does it take for us to catch up?

An England win versus PNG is going to be well earned!

Is that a prediction, Frank, or do you mean that an England win versus PNG, were it to happen next week, should be viewed as a laudable victory?

Bongser will stick his scrawny neck out here and go for an England win. PNG were made to look good this morning (in front of massive home support) by opposition that is nowhere near of the quality that progression from the group stage of this competition requires. England stormed the first ten minutes and the game was won by 22. Little wonder the foot came off the gas. You could argue that some of the squad players given a run should have been trying to write their names on the team sheet for (however many) games to come in this WCup, but, with a Job Done Sticker already applied, why should any of them burn themselves out in that heat for the Pyrrhic victory of merely running up the score? If they are unavailable they definitely won't play.

On the wider issue, Bongser thinks that the M62 belt (diluted by the soccer fans of some of the biggest clubs in the country) ain't doin' too bad against the catchment areas that the Sthn Hem countries have. Whilst PNG has a population of under 10 million (big looking) people, RL is their national sport. Over here it struggles for much time on terrestrial TV, lots of kids growing up only possess one shape of ball because that is what they see on tele.

Run the Angles

Re: Northern Vs Southern Hemisphere : Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:07 pm  

As it happens, Bongser had three different shapes of ball when he was a youngster but his doctor told him not to worry.

Re: Northern Vs Southern Hemisphere : Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:09 pm  

Totally agree Frank, its been a disaster of a tournament for me. The one sided scorelines against so called home nations and fledging nations has been an embarrassment, not to mention the off field antics played out in the papers. It shows how far we are behind the Southern Hemisphere sides and how the international game must change.

There is not enough talent to host a world cup for 14 nations. Realistically there are only four nations that have a realistic shot at the final this year (Aus, NZ, Eng & Ton). And I really don't understand though why we split down to England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

We need to make it more competitive and more inivative (strangely by embracing the structure of past World Cups). This would be my view of how internationals should be structured (if I was RL's glorious world leader)...

For a start, I'd break internationals down to three tiers;

Tier One would be the elite nations (established with players developed already)

Tier Two would be emerging nations (countries who are still developing their own players).

Tier Three would be home nations to create a breeding ground for players not established/selected or in form to make the GB side. It would also remove the headache of having to choose a nation to represent (you could proudly represent eligable home nations in the knowledge good form would allow you to play at the highest level)

Tier One Elite Nations
Austrailia
New Zealand
Great Britain


Tier Two Australasia
Tonga
PNG
Samoa
Fiji

Tier Two Europe/Middle East
France
Italy
Russia
Lebanon

Tier Two Americas
USA
Canada
Jamaica

Tier Three Home Nations
Scotland
Wales
Ireland
England Knights

Tier One would play for two trophies - Four Nations & World Cup

Four Nations - Alternate years in Northern & Southern Hemisphere (except in World Cup Year)
- Would include three elite nations plus one other nation (to be determined by qualifying tournaments (See Tier Two comps)

World Cup - Every 4 years
- Would include three elite nations plus qualifiers from Tier Two Europe/Middle East, Australasia and Americas (six team)
- World Cup would take form as a league throughout the year (each team plays each other once randomised home/away)
- Top 4 qualify for Finals competition

Tier Two competitions would take form as a league (home & away fixtures) over a two year period
- Winners of Australasian Group would take part in Four Nations when held in Southern Hemisphere
- Winners of Europe/Middle East and Americas play off, with winners taking part in Four Nations (Northern Hemisphere)
- Home Nations Tier Three would purely be an international breeding ground for those who are not ready for GB side (gives them a chance to prove themselves on an international setting). Competitive league running through two year cycles.

The Annual Calendar could therefore be something like this:

2018
February - Australasian Group starts two year league cycle
October/November - Four Nations Northern Hemisphere (Aus, NZ, GB & highest ranked Europe/Middle East/Americas nation from 2017 World Cup)
October/November - Home Nations Group starts two year league cycle

2019
February - Europe/Middle East & Americas Groups - Start two year league cycle begins
July - Australasian Group two year league cycle concludes... winners qualify for Four Nations
October/November Four Nations Southern Hemisphere (Aus, NZ, GB & Australasian Group qualifier)
October/November - Home Nations Group concludes

2020
May - Europe/Middle East & Americas Groups two year league cycle concludes... winners qualify for Four Nations Playoff
August - Europe/Middle East Winner vs Americas Four Nations Playoff (two leg) - winners qualify for Four Nations
October/November Four Nations Northern Hemisphere (Aus, NZ, GB & Europe/Middle East/Americas qualifier)
October/November - Home Nations Group starts two year league cycle

2021
February - World Cup league cycle begins (Aus, NZ, GB, Europe/Middle East Group Qualifier 2020, Americas Group Qualifier 2020 & Australasian Group Qualifier 2019)
August - World Cup league concludes. Top four qualify for World Cup Finals
October - Home Nations Group concludes
November - World Cup Finals (Semi Finals and Finals) held in Northern Hemisphere

2022
February - European/Middle East & Americas Group starts two year league cycle
October/November - Four Nations Southern Hemisphere (Aus, NZ, GB & highest ranked Australasian nation from World Cup 2021)
October/November - Home Nations Group starts two year league cycle

2023
February - Australasian Group starts two year league cycle
May - Europe/Middle East & Americas Groups two year league cycle concludes... winners qualify for Four Nations Playoff
August - Europe/Middle East Winner vs Americas Four Nations Playoff (two leg) - winners qualify for Four Nations
October/November Four Nations Northern Hemisphere (Aus, NZ, GB & Europe/Middle East/Americas qualifier)
October/November - Home Nations Group concludes

2024
July - Australasian Group two year league cycle concludes... winners qualify for Four Nations
October/November Four Nations Southern Hemisphere (Aus, NZ, GB & Australasian qualifier)
October/November - Home Nations Group starts two year league cycle

2025
February - World Cup league cycle begins (Aus, NZ, GB, Europe/Middle East Group Qualifiers 2023, Americas Group Qualifier 2023 & Australasian Group Qualifier 2024)
August - World Cup league concludes. Top four qualify for World Cup Finals
October - Home Nations Group concludes
November - World Cup Finals (Semi Finals and Finals) held in Southern Hemisphere

And so it continues... New nations can be integrated into existing groups easily and if necessary can grow to further groups.

We will not grow our international game if we continue to allow mismatched fixtures, squads solely made up of average/part time Australians and competition to play at the highest level.

Note to self... its at times like these where you really should have a word with yourself and get out a bit more!!!

[Bulliac]

Re: Northern Vs Southern Hemisphere : Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:38 am  

Frank Whitcombe wrote:

This RLWC is demonstrating how far behind the Southern Hemisphere teams the Northern Hemisphere teams are, even the Pacific island nations look stronger than us - Kear's comments about training facilities were really interesting.

As long as I've been watching RL (over 40 years), we've been chasing the Aussies, what does it take for us to catch up?

An England win versus PNG is going to be well earned!

Basically, it takes rugby league to overtake soccer as the number one game in the UK, which would leave us in a similar position as the NRL - though I accept the Aussie rules people might quibble at that. If we were ever to get into that wonderful position then our papers would be full of it, sky would be offering £billions to us, the Great British youth would be craving to get into our game and earning millions per week.

Won't happen in my lifetime, nor in anyone else's to be honest. Not going to happen at all, imo, unless the NRL goes into reverse.

[Bullseye]

Re: Northern Vs Southern Hemisphere : Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:29 am  

I don't think it's been a disaster. There have been some mismatches but there have also been some super games and it will ramp up now we're in the quarter finals.

If you really wanted to even things up on the field you could restrict future tournaments to 8 teams in the top tier and the rest in a "development" cup playing curtain raisers. For example GB, Aus, NZ, Tonga, Samoa, PNG, Fiji and France as tier one. You will always get some one sided games no matter what so I'm not sure what's really to be gained, especially as Ireland deserve to be in that tier one anyway.

I'm relaxed about having extra teams in the WC. All teams play by the same eligibility rules. You just need to be careful how you draw teams together in the groups.

Outside of World Cup years I'd still have 4 Nations and 3 match test series with the Ashes coming back.

2017 - World Cup - in Southern Hemisphere
2018 - Ashes Tour - GB Vs Australia - In GB
2019 - 4 Nations - (4 WC semi finalists) in Southern Hemisphere
2020 - Kiwi Tour - GB vs NZ - In GB
2021 - World Cup - In Northern Hemisphere
2022 - Ashes Tour to Australia
2023 - 4 Nations in Australia
2024 - Tour to NZ - NZ vs GB.

Re: Northern Vs Southern Hemisphere : Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:48 pm  

IRL/WAL/SCO will never amount to anything without a strong and full amateur game, and a number of professional sides in each country for juniors to go on and play for. Without this then you're just going to end up, as we are now with players not good enough for England/Aus/NZ filling up their teams, year upon year. How can the RLIF WRL/IRL/SRL expect fans to get behind and be encouraged with a side made up largely of none nation players? Cant really can they? I certainly wouldn't support a team full of Jocks, Paddy's and Taff's representing England. One or two heritage players is just about acceptable.

The ARL dont do much to help the International game either by telling Pacific Islanders that they cant play State of Origin unless they choose the Kangaroos that year. Fair enough its different on a world cup year like this, but what about next year when Pacific Island nations are back playing each other for the Polynesian Cup or whatever it is?

Michael Jennings/Fifita/Hopoate get picked for all play SOO that year then theyre not playing for Tonga unless its a WC year, Ill guarentee you.