Is Potter right : Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:16 am  

Or is he just whinging? As the rules are the same for all teams. http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4196861.Potter_queries_impact_of_slower_rucks/ I feel a slower ruck would make the players have to be more creative so lets hope it stays the way its started. Opinions??

Or is he just whinging? As the rules are the same for all teams. http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4196861.Potter_queries_impact_of_slower_rucks/ I feel a slower ruck would make the players have to be more creative so lets hope it stays the way its started. Opinions??

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:22 am  

Hasn't stopped Cas scoring 21 tries in 4 games this year...

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:28 am  

Quality teams such as St Helens and Leeds are used to catching slow defences either offside or unorganised with a quick play of the ball therefore are used to gaining cheap yards via a penalty or from a lack of a confrontation. This is fine when they come up against inferior sides but, as the WC proved, the respective players struggle to break down a superior defence.

From the two matches I have seen at BV this season it has been noticeable how much longer the tacklers are able to lay on for without being penalised resulting in a slow PTB, so I can only understand the frustration teams who utilised this play very effectively are feeling. However, if it’s consistently applied and the referee ignores the ‘begging’ from the supporters then I don’t see a problem. Yes the game is marginally slower but as you said the increase in skill to actually beat a man or put someone through a gap as opposed to running straight and catching someone offside or not in position would, IMO benefit the competition as a whole.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:32 am  

I think he's got a fair point if the interpretation has changed, in as much as this is pretty important for clubs to incorporate into their pre season. It should have been made known, if indeed slower play the balls are not going to be penalised.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:46 am  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

Quality teams such as St Helens and Leeds are used to catching slow defences either offside or unorganised with a quick play of the ball therefore are used to gaining cheap yards via a penalty or from a lack of a confrontation.

as the aussies and kiwis did to us in the world cup

Khlav Kalash wrote:

From the two matches I have seen at BV this season it has been noticeable how much longer the tacklers are able to lay on for without being penalised resulting in a slow PTB, so I can only understand the frustration teams who utilised this play very effectively are feeling. However, if it’s consistently applied and the referee ignores the ‘begging’ from the supporters then I don’t see a problem. Yes the game is marginally slower but as you said the increase in skill to actually beat a man or put someone through a gap as opposed to running straight and catching someone offside or not in position would, IMO benefit the competition as a whole.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:46 am  

Barnacle Bill wrote:

I think he's got a fair point if the interpretation has changed, in as much as this is pretty important for clubs to incorporate into their pre season. It should have been made known, if indeed slower play the balls are not going to be penalised.

indeed. ignoring the rights or wrongs of a slow play the ball - the interpretation of the rules has clearly changed, and it has not been communicated to the clubs by Cummings or the RFL.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:51 am  

saints35 bulls0 wrote:

indeed. ignoring the rights or wrongs of a slow play the ball - the interpretation of the rules has clearly changed, and it has not been communicated to the clubs by Cummings or the RFL.

This is true.
I suppose as long as the RFL have not communicated it with any clubs then at least there is a balance there that doesn't give clubs the advantage. Now its a case of will the interpretion stays that way or not as we see these things seem to change weekly

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:03 pm  

Forever FC wrote:

This is true.
I suppose as long as the RFL have not communicated it with any clubs then at least there is a balance there that doesn't give clubs the advantage. Now its a case of will the interpretion stays that way or not as we see these things seem to change weekly

I don't see it as "a balance" just uncertainty. There is no knowing if any given ref on any given day will allow slower play the balls or penalise them.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:25 pm  

As a Saints fan I disagree with Potter to an extent.

Yes we suffer when teams try to slow us down, and it does not benefit our flamboyant style of play.

And yet, given the expansive rugby Saints play this has always been a tactic many teams try, not a particularly new phenomenon. For example Huddersfield deliberately tried to 'nobble' Alex Murphy and Tom Van Vollenhoven back in the 60's. A quality team has to adapt.

But there is a bigger issue at stake, and that is the quick PTB reducing skill in general.

It has been a common feature of super league to see a little winger scurry into a tackle, and be half way to already playing the ball before he is tackled - i.e he 'surrenders' himself to earn a qucik PTB.

It is cheap and absolutely horrible for the purist to watch. It is followed by the hooker scooting for an easy gain and this has been a centre piece of not only the majority of SL teams tactics, but the British team itself.

It is no cooincidence we have suffered an alarming decline in the standard of our halfbacks (which neatly coincides with the rise of so called star hookers).

The SL has sacrificed skill and vision in place of brute force and a quick scamper. It is so boring to watch.

It has led to the rise of one dimensional players such as Mickey Higham, who we conveniently ignore cannot pass a rugby ball at the expense of the old Andy Greg's who could break a defence down with subtle touches.

The 'case for the defence' long needed to be restated. For too long good, physical defence has been countered by the bizzare need to 'roll away' or 'MOVVVVE!'

I actually would not have been surprised if we had brought in a rule that forced defenders to help the ball player to his feet at one point.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:24 pm  

ref never pings the opposition down here for not getting up. would be nice if it was evened up a bit.