: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:51 pm  

declaration wrote:

NO talk of any recent games intended...

declaration wrote:

Obviously you didn't watch Leeds Bradford last Friday.

Apparently a knock on doesn't need to touch the ground or an opposition player to be a knock on.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:53 pm  

declaration wrote:

Instead of two sentences of abuse, why not just explain the difference then?

Because I also suspected you weren't being serious.

declaration wrote:

If the ball goes straight from one player to a team mate in front, when is it a knock on and when is it a forward pass?

A pass has to be "thrown". If you don't "throw" it, then it's not a pass. This is the extremeley simple bit, yet that most people who argue the toss don't, for some reason, seem to know.

If you pass it, the pass rules apply, and whether the ball travels forward relative to the pitch is irrelevant.

But if you knock it along, and it contacts either the ground or another player, the knock-on rules apply, and the only question is whether the ball travels forward relative to the pitch

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:05 pm  

There was another knock on/forward pass in the Leeds game at the weekend that Senior scored off I think. How on Earth the ref missed it I will never know.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:28 pm  

declaration wrote:

I guess it involves a degree of subjectivity then. Surely it is arguable that JJB intended to slap the ball to a team mate, and was therefore in control of the ball?

That would be a forward slap then, not a forward pass.

Michael.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:32 pm  

mav wrote:

That would be a forward slap then, not a forward pass.

Michael.

Right, good to get that cleared up in my head.

Now when does a slap become a pass?

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:50 pm  

declaration wrote:

Right, good to get that cleared up in my head.

Now when does a slap become a pass?

Never. That would be a knock-on.

Michael.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:47 pm  

mav wrote:

Never. That would be a knock-on.

Michael.

both you and fa seem to be working on the assumption that an action not defined as a pass is defined as knock on! That isn't the case there is a definition of a knock on itself and there are actions and situations which fall fall under neither definition, there is no point denying that.

It is unarguable in my opinion that the jjb incident was one of those situations and the incident fell into a grey area within our rules, similar to the Webb incident the game loses nothing by tightening up these rules and making them clearer, the only way the game will lose is if people pretend that there is no problem

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:02 pm  

It doesn't really matter whether the incident last week was a forward pass or a knock on because they are both illegal moves in league. That the video ref isn't allowed to rule on forward passes is a red herring because the play was rightly called back therefore the correct decision was reached in the context of playing a game of rugby league.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:13 pm  

McClennan wrote:

It doesn't really matter whether the incident last week was a forward pass or a knock on because they are both illegal moves in league. That the video ref isn't allowed to rule on forward passes is a red herring because the play was rightly called back therefore the correct decision was reached in the context of playing a game of rugby league.

are you saying the vr can't make a decision on a forward pass because the camara can play tricks and it makes it too difficult to make the correct decision yet if you decide the action was a knock rather than a pass he can make the decision because those camara angles suddenly change and all of a sudden it is infallible!

And don't fall back on fas red herring of judgment changing because the same as the rule states a forward pass needs to be passed forward it also states a knock on needs to be knocked forward! It is one hundred percent clear jjb knocked the ball backwards yet it went forward exactly the same as if he'd passed the ball backwards it would have likely gone forward

And if cummins wants the game to be reffed as fa states then why not put it in the rules

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:13 pm  

McClennan wrote:

It doesn't really matter whether the incident last week was a forward pass or a knock on because they are both illegal moves in league. That the video ref isn't allowed to rule on forward passes is a red herring because the play was rightly called back therefore the correct decision was reached in the context of playing a game of rugby league.

But surely if we can trust video refs to judge whether a 'slap' has gone forward, we can also trust them to judge whether a pass has gone forward.

In the build up to a try that is.

It seems weird to suggest that a video ref is capable and allowed to say whether a slap went forward but is incapable of doing the same for a pass.