Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:24 pm  

Except most people outside of Leeds, Wigan etc aren't particularly going to care about Leeds or Wigan.

The problem with going down the club route is that our clubs are northern. And the media doesn't give a toss about anything north of Watford.

England, on the other hand, when played at a decent stadium in London attracts attention.

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:43 pm  

BartonFlyer wrote:

Eat more beef! Best steak ever in Buenos Aires

And nice red wine too

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:23 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

We need to focus on the club game it is what differentiates us - much better to have more games between the top side in the NRL & SL than meaningless internationals against the likes of France, Wales, Scotland etc. How are the likes of South Pacific countries supposed to afford to bring sides to the UK when attendances for games against England would be pitiful. Argentina are OK because when they play the likes of England the crowd is still huge.

Eng v Fiji sold out the KC. NZ v Samoa sold out the halliwell jones.

I think a four nations between Eng, France, NZ and Samoa would go well and be a success.

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:58 pm  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

Eng v Fiji sold out the KC. NZ v Samoa sold out the halliwell jones.

I think a four nations between Eng, France, NZ and Samoa would go well and be a success.

The attendances that mention were for world cup fixtures and it may be difficult to replicate these in a 4 nations comp.

As we are now, we should probably try and alternate test series with NZ and Aus in alternate years and work like hell at trying to help the "smaller" nations improve.
This probably means someone digging into the ancestors of players in England and Aus and trying to find Scots, Irish, Welsh etc in their grand parents

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:39 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The attendances that mention were for world cup fixtures and it may be difficult to replicate these in a 4 nations comp.

As we are now, we should probably try and alternate test series with NZ and Aus in alternate years and work like hell at trying to help the "smaller" nations improve.
This probably means someone digging into the ancestors of players in England and Aus and trying to find Scots, Irish, Welsh etc in their grand parents

Personally I think we need to concentrate on Wales and France in the short to medium term.
I think we need a big effort to get development of Welsh and French players and get them into the Championship and eventually SL.

I don't really know much about how player development is going in Wales. Are they one of the regional academies? Am I right in saying Catalans have recently just started their u19 academy?

If we can develop 15 SL standard Welshmen and 15 SL standard Frenchmen then their national sides should be competitive.

I think there's potential for both nations but they need assistance, the players need a pathway to full time RL and the national sides need regular games v England and a set international schedule.

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:14 pm  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

Eng v Fiji sold out the KC. NZ v Samoa sold out the halliwell jones.

I think a four nations between Eng, France, NZ and Samoa would go well and be a success.

Halliwell Jones holds 11k hardly a huge crowd on which to build a stable international game - Leeds Rhinos haven't had a crowd that small for years.

Are all the games against NZ sold out? so what makes you think a SSI country will be as big a draw as NZ?- crowds for a series of that nature would be pitiful - how many turned up at LSV on Saturday even at £10 a ticket - the international game is not where RL has strength. It is very likely the WCC game Leeds v North Queensland would draw a bigger crowd than any of the 3 internationals if it were played at Elland Rd.

The exiles would produce a better series than either France or Wales - I think the would actually beat England.

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:20 pm  

Halliwell Jones holds 15k

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:40 am  

This discussion ignores the nature of the two games. RL is generally far more unforgiving on the scoreboard when a 'better' team plays a 'weaker' one. There is no place to hide. You cannot aim for scrums, lineouts and penalties and starve the opposition of possession. You score a penalty, you give the ball back for 6 tackles. Against Australia just one set is quite possible to lead to a try against minnows even when starting from their own line.

If the sport wants to become genuinely more competitive across a bigger range of countries we'd have to look at bringing back genuine contests for possession - stripping the ball, allowing tacklers to strike at the PTB, not to mention proper scrums.

This simply won't happen because this isn't what RL is nowadays - contests for possession have been removed to make the game faster and cleaner. Which is fine when teams are relatively evenly matched but a fatal flaw when they're not.

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:10 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

This discussion ignores the nature of the two games. RL is generally far more unforgiving on the scoreboard when a 'better' team plays a 'weaker' one. There is no place to hide. You cannot aim for scrums, lineouts and penalties and starve the opposition of possession. You score a penalty, you give the ball back for 6 tackles. Against Australia just one set is quite possible to lead to a try against minnows even when starting from their own line.

If the sport wants to become genuinely more competitive across a bigger range of countries we'd have to look at bringing back genuine contests for possession - stripping the ball, allowing tacklers to strike at the PTB, not to mention proper scrums.

This simply won't happen because this isn't what RL is nowadays - contests for possession have been removed to make the game faster and cleaner. Which is fine when teams are relatively evenly matched but a fatal flaw when they're not.

Agree with that. I think for a thriving future of the sport we have to go back and reintroduce some of the elements we got rid, even if only in a very mild fashion.

I'd have proper scrums. I totally understand people being against this but I don't think it'd turn into Union style scrums (which have been hugely cleaned up in the last year or so) and I think they'd genuinely give "lesser" teams another chance at competing. Get some tackle-hungry backrowers and a couple of big props and a good kicking half back and suddenly a team has a way of making a better opposition have to work. Because the lesser team can kick downfield and then potentially win the scrum.

Smokey had some decent suggestions on a previous thread of possibly changing the 40-20 to a 30-30 or changing the game to 4 quarters instead of 2 halves.

I'm not advocating going back to rucks, mauls and lineouts but just a few ways to help teams compete.

Re: Can we learn from Argentina RU : Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:17 am  

Television coverage for the european championship would be a good start. Lot's of emerging amateur nations taken up the game in recent years e.g sweden, norway