[Mild Rover]

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:55 pm  

The cap is a distraction, whether you're pro or anti, imo. Recycling a post from the end of last year...

The cap is a red herring in more than one way, imo, and distracts from more meaningful stuff.

The UK economy is knackered, especially in RL’s traditional heartlands. So, while it is very disappointing that the cap has risen so little (or fallen quite a lot in real terms), it’s not like anybody is profiteering.

Other sports have flourished with caps in place, and seen their caps grow. I suppose it is a bit different if your league is the pinnacle of its sport, like the major US leagues or the NRL. But the CFL has a cap, and does okay - it just accepts that it has been left behind by the NFL. We’re not far off that for SL vs the NRL and I don’t think the NRL is a sensible yardstick anymore. The issue is money, and I don’t believe the cap is shutting out investment - and unless potential investors start coming forward to say it is, I’ll remain sceptical. In part because the cap itself is now a bit of a joke. It hasn’t brought sufficient competitive parity (although it could be worse, I admit) or financial stability to clubs. And it has so many loopholes we may as well not bother and save a few quid on the admin. It’s only benefit is that it annoys Wigan fans who imagine it holds their club back (it doesn’t, but if it annoys them that’s a minor plus).

[Mild Rover]

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:01 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

The salary cap isn’t killing the sport (after all the NRL also has a cap, and flourishing) - having the cap managed by the people who benefit most from keeping it superficially low (in the short term at least) whilst not having any commercial activity for so long not discerningly increasing money in the sport over decades, leading to everything being cut to the bone financially are the things which is killing the sport.

IMG bringing in a commercial team, and committing to a prolonged schedule of increasing the salary cap, whilst repurposing the cap to focus more on empowering teams to keep their homegrown talent (rather than some ill conceived “providing an equal competition” as it currently is presented as, when it clearly doesn’t achieve that aim), bringing in minimum contracts for young players, limiting cap value to a set amount, and providing more incentives for investing in youth, both locally, and in target communities.

I just don't think the cap is the answer here. Incentives to improve youth development across the game are needed but I don't think propping up the currently broken system using narrowly-relevant cap incentives would work.
The underlying problems are disparity in revenue between SL clubs, which isn't a easy or pain-free fix and the club- rather than player-centric pathways.

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:29 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The cap is a distraction, whether you're pro or anti, imo. Recycling a post from the end of last year...

The cap is a red herring in more than one way, imo, and distracts from more meaningful stuff.

The UK economy is knackered, especially in RL’s traditional heartlands. So, while it is very disappointing that the cap has risen so little (or fallen quite a lot in real terms), it’s not like anybody is profiteering.

Other sports have flourished with caps in place, and seen their caps grow. I suppose it is a bit different if your league is the pinnacle of its sport, like the major US leagues or the NRL. But the CFL has a cap, and does okay - it just accepts that it has been left behind by the NFL. We’re not far off that for SL vs the NRL and I don’t think the NRL is a sensible yardstick anymore. The issue is money, and I don’t believe the cap is shutting out investment - and unless potential investors start coming forward to say it is, I’ll remain sceptical. In part because the cap itself is now a bit of a joke. It hasn’t brought sufficient competitive parity (although it could be worse, I admit) or financial stability to clubs. And it has so many loopholes we may as well not bother and save a few quid on the admin. It’s only benefit is that it annoys Wigan fans who imagine it holds their club back (it doesn’t, but if it annoys them that’s a minor plus).

Sorry to disappoint you but it doesnt annoy me and it doesnt hold us back,we just havnt been good as St Helens last few years who have been dominant (apart from the CC ).This dominance will change maybe to Wigan or Warrington or Leeds etc but it will change.

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:54 pm  

Steve0 wrote:

Should it not be about clubs trying to keep up with saints and Wigan rather than saints and Wigan being held back by Wakefield and cas etc? If some clubs don't spend up to the salary cap, tough but to stop the exodus of talent to the NRL, we should be increasing wages to keep the best players in SL.

That’s exactly how it should be.

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:48 pm  

Tough question to answer.

Super League is far better for being a summer sport. It is a much more comfortable experience standing on a terrace in a t-shirt in July than having to wrap up to stare into fog trying to catch a glimpse of a forwards game in a mud bath. The improved ground conditions have made for a faster and more free flowing game that is far more exciting to watch.

The grounds and facilities have improved tremendously, and the focus on making the sport more family friendly during the late '90s and throughout the 2000's really worked making for an overall better atmosphere.

What hasn't improved is the business side of the sport. The RFL are still a joke, still penniless, and still behind the times. The game has needed investment for a long time, and when you have a governing body that cannot support struggling clubs people need to ask why.

The RFL cannot even market the game correctly. Sky did a better job of marketing the game when they took on the Super League back in the mid '90s than the RFL do in 2023. Take the RFL's website as an example. It is a poorly built site, looks very amateur, is confusing to navigate, and is full of dead links and outdated pages. No wonder some profession clubs have websites that resemble home made Geocities sites from decades ago, and make basic mistakes in their advertising campaigns (Leigh Lopards - I'm looking at you). They need to up their game to attract new people to the sport. It all just looks too amateurish.

I may have a biased viewpoint as a long time Leeds fan who lived in Bradford during the late '90s to late 2000's (Leeds golden era and Bullmania in full swing), but more people just seemed more invested in the sport back then. There seemed to be more household names playing, and more people just appeared to be aware of the sport.

In regards to the salary cap - I thought it was great for the sport when it was introduced, and proudly told football fans how it is a far better system that should be adopted into other sports. Now I'm not so sure. Like others have said, it has got stagnant due to the lack of constant increases. The best players can get more money down under. Politics aside, I wouldn't blame them for making the move anyway, never mind for a higher pay packet. If we kept, or even attracted, all the best players then the rest will trickle down the leagues making the whole sport better.

The whole sport needs a shake up in England. We need to start at the top of the governing body and ensure the correct people are in place to help maximise exposure, revenue, and interest before it really becomes a minority sport here and we are all watching the southern hemisphere teams grow.

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:25 pm  

Being a London fan we are out on a limb compared to 95% of the rugby league teams in regards to finances through gate receipts, merchandise etc but looking at this piece, Super League is so far behind the NRL, i do hope that IMG come in and actually make a difference to the game as under the RFL leadership, SuperLeague has not really improved. I do not know salaries at Super League clubs but I am guessing the younger players are not even earning what the women players will be earning in Australia next season. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nrl ... expansion/

Being a London fan we are out on a limb compared to 95% of the rugby league teams in regards to finances through gate receipts, merchandise etc but looking at this piece, Super League is so far behind the NRL, i do hope that IMG come in and actually make a difference to the game as under the RFL leadership, SuperLeague has not really improved. I do not know salaries at Super League clubs but I am guessing the younger players are not even earning what the women players will be earning in Australia next season. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nrl ... expansion/

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:31 pm  

Too much tinkering would be my biggest criticism.

At the start we had mergers proposed then the game chickened out due to a backlash and a first past the post league table with a focus on Paris, Sheffield and London.

Quite quickly Paris and Sheffield fell by the way side and we switched to a playoffs and Grand Final format. I suposse the 00s were relatively stable then we switched the Franchising. The game then got bored of that and went back to promotion and relegation and teams based overseas were the focus. We then had the disaster that was Middle8s, now back to franchising again.

So a change in approach every few years or so, and expansion teams are the big new thing then quickly die out, rinse and repeat.

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:25 pm  

gardener wrote:

Super League is so far behind the NRL, i do hope that IMG come in and actually make a difference to the game as under the RFL leadership, SuperLeague has not really improved.

The problem is that NRL is the biggest sport in a sports mad county. RL in the UK is a niche sport, that has very little support outside the M62 corridor. I know you are a London fan, but that is the exception that proves the rule, and you even claim to have noticed how they suffer from lack of ticket revenue and merchandise sales.

I don't think that IMG will dedicate enough money to change this, and without substantial financial backing that will support franchise teams in other parts of the country for more than a couple of years (like has happened in the past), and fund a long term professional media campaign to bring in more interest, as well as turn the whole sport more polished and professional, nothing will change. We will still be seen as that odd 'northern rugby' that nobody understands or has an interest in. It will take decades and hundreds of millions, if not billions, to get the traction to be a major sport in the UK that rivals the NRL.

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:39 pm  

UllFC wrote:

Too much tinkering would be my biggest criticism.

This is the biggest problem. The RFL have a good product, but have to tinker with it in the hopes that some novelty will suddenly bring in a boat full of new fans, new investors, and plenty of cash. If anything it just shows how unstable they actually are.

They need to speculate to accumulate. They desperately need money to invest in promoting and supporting what they have first. Get the sport to a national audience, and then think about expanding when they have organically grown the fanbase.

UllFC wrote:

So a change in approach every few years or so, and expansion teams are the big new thing then quickly die out, rinse and repeat.

PSG didn't want to spend the money on anything but football. As soon as they realised it wasn't going to turn a quick profit they quit. Harlequins did the same.

The other franchises, Celtic Crusaders, Gateshead Thunder, Toronto Wolfpack, etc, all realised how expensive it was and how the RFL couldn't support them whilst they gained traction. Fan support was probably lower than anticipated as well. It is only the Catalans that have weathered the first few years, but it cost them a lot of money doing so. It helps that they get plenty of away fans traveling to them on beanos, something that Gateshead or Celtic Crusaders couldn't attract.

Its no surprise that Jacksonville never joined the party.

Re: Looking back on the SL era : Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:38 pm  

Leeds_Luke wrote:

This is the biggest problem. The RFL have a good product, but have to tinker with it in the hopes that some novelty will suddenly bring in a boat full of new fans, new investors, and plenty of cash. If anything it just shows how unstable they actually are.

They need to speculate to accumulate. They desperately need money to invest in promoting and supporting what they have first. Get the sport to a national audience, and then think about expanding when they have organically grown the fanbase.

PSG didn't want to spend the money on anything but football. As soon as they realised it wasn't going to turn a quick profit they quit. Harlequins did the same.

The other franchises, Celtic Crusaders, Gateshead Thunder, Toronto Wolfpack, etc, all realised how expensive it was and how the RFL couldn't support them whilst they gained traction. Fan support was probably lower than anticipated as well. It is only the Catalans that have weathered the first few years, but it cost them a lot of money doing so. It helps that they get plenty of away fans traveling to them on beanos, something that Gateshead or Celtic Crusaders couldn't attract.

Its no surprise that Jacksonville never joined the party.

Nothing to do with away fans. Last year, Leeds took 2 eight seater mini buses to St Helens. Didn’t do St Helens any harm did it as they won SL with ease. On the flip side, st Helen’s took 3k to Leeds