Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:10 pm  

Agree entirely with Bren2k and RL13.

I'm all for big hits, I enjoy the odd scrap and I can absolutely love a tough, intense, brutal defensive game.

But we HAVE to safeguard our players for 2 reasons. 1 is a selfish reason. I want to see our best players playing, not injured or retired. The 2nd is a moral reason. I believe it's wrong to expect players to play a game where we aren't doing everything possible to reduce the risk of both minor and serious injury to them.

Playing RL takes a huge physical toll on a persons body even without serious injuries. There are going to be lots of ex-players struggling to walk in 20/30 years time, again, even without sustaining serious injury.

Many RL fans I speak to massively underestimate the strength and power of the players these days and massively underestimate the power and force going into "regular" tackles let alone big hits. Unfortunately many just think it's a slightly bigger, slightly faster version of the game they played at amateur level. When it's a world away from that.

I've mentioned it before on here but I think it's worthy of mention again; In a game v Warrington a year or so ago, Jamie Peacock sustained over 20 impacts each equivalent to being in a 60mph car crash.

So imagine being in a 60mph car crash, 20 times in an hour and a half. Then do it again next week.

That's partly why head injuries are taken much more seriously now and why I think high tackles should be taken more seriously. Because a high tackle in 2015 is a completely different thing to a high tackle 20 or 30 or even 10 years ago.

And that's without the twisting, cannonballs etc that we're now seeing cause lots of injuries. The majority are unintended injuries from players trying to turn the ball carrier and slow the play the ball. Some are designed to cause pain to the ball carrier. The former should lead to the rules tweaked to avoid as many injuries as possible. The latter should be massively harshly punished and clubs and coaches punished if necessary until those sh|thouse tactics are hounded out of the game.

But both need addressing. As I don't want to see players hurt and their welfare threatened unnecessarily and I don't want to see RL's best players sat on the sidelines or retiring early.

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:40 am  

Having been in a60mph car crash I find this very hard to believe.

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:14 am  

From a Daily Telegraph piece, featuring an interview with Mark Bitcon:

Rugby league players run up to 9km during an 80-minute game, experience fewer energy-restoring stops for set pieces than their colleagues in rugby union, and endure repeated collisions with opponents at an impact of up to 10G - which is similar to that of a car crash.

The figure I've seen is 50mph - but what's 10mph between friends?

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:17 am  

bren2k wrote:

From a Daily Telegraph piece, featuring an interview with Mark Bitcon:

The figure I've seen is 50mph - but what's 10mph between friends?

Neither are right. Two players running at each other flat out would both be running no more than 15mph at impact (give or take) would equate to 30mph impact.

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:22 am  

rollin thunder wrote:

Neither are right. Two players running at each other flat out would both be running no more than 15mph at impact (give or take) would equate to 30mph impact.

30mph is the figure I seem to remember hearing. It's still frightening, especially when you consider it happening around 20 times a game.

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:06 pm  

rollin thunder wrote:

Neither are right. Two players running at each other flat out would both be running no more than 15mph at impact (give or take) would equate to 30mph impact.

But in a car you are in a seat with a seat belt and an airbag plus the crumple zones of the car.

The only thing that crumples in an RL tackle is the 2 people involved.


The Jamie Peacock 60mph figure comes from Jason Davidson and Ben Jones at Leeds.

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:59 pm  

Him wrote:

think high tackles should be taken more seriously. Because a high tackle in 2015 is a completely different thing to a high tackle 20 or 30 or even 10 years ago.

And that's without the twisting, cannonballs etc that we're now seeing cause lots of injuries. The majority are unintended injuries from players trying to turn the ball carrier and slow the play the ball. Some are designed to cause pain to the ball carrier. The former should lead to the rules tweaked to avoid as many injuries as possible. The latter should be massively harshly punished and clubs and coaches punished if necessary until those sh|thouse tactics are hounded out of the game.

But both need addressing. As I don't want to see players hurt and their welfare threatened unnecessarily and I don't want to see RL's best players sat on the sidelines or retiring early.

Agree with this, more and more techniques have come into play to slow pob, some reasonable (putting more men into the tackle, reasonable in that it has the negative of making the defensive line harder to set up with a man missing) some not so (attacker holding onto collars to cannonball challenges)

Instead of banning each new technique post game would it not be easier to install a 2nd ref? It would mean a quicker game which is better for the speccies, would mean the only way to slow pob would be to win the initial collision rather than roughhousing, again better for speccies and it would mean players, forwards especially, would have to be fitter so lighter and so it might reduce the overall collision injuries?

This would keep the game the rough contact sport which requires courage and toughness yet reduce the injuries and the naff tactics that have crept in.

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:35 pm  

Baron Von Waffle wrote:

Agree with this, more and more techniques have come into play to slow pob, some reasonable (putting more men into the tackle, reasonable in that it has the negative of making the defensive line harder to set up with a man missing) some not so (attacker holding onto collars to cannonball challenges)

Instead of banning each new technique post game would it not be easier to install a 2nd ref? It would mean a quicker game which is better for the speccies, would mean the only way to slow pob would be to win the initial collision rather than roughhousing, again better for speccies and it would mean players, forwards especially, would have to be fitter so lighter and so it might reduce the overall collision injuries?

This would keep the game the rough contact sport which requires courage and toughness yet reduce the injuries and the naff tactics that have crept in.

Yep agree with that. A 2nd ref is a must in my view. It doesn't have to be like in the NRL where there are 2 full refs on the pitch and they swap over. We can have 1 ref but have a "roving touch judge" that can be behind the ruck and relay instructions to the players and give an often invisible viewpoint to the ref.

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:29 am  

Him wrote:

Yep agree with that. A 2nd ref is a must in my view. It doesn't have to be like in the NRL where there are 2 full refs on the pitch and they swap over. We can have 1 ref but have a "roving touch judge" that can be behind the ruck and relay instructions to the players and give an often invisible viewpoint to the ref.

Aren't they called fans?

Re: Is Rugby league becoming soft? : Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:54 am  

I think some of the analogies about the power of impacts in sports are a bit OTT. The amount of energy might be similar but not the effect. I remember reading an article before Frank Bruno fought Mike Tyson saying that Tyson's punch was the equivalent of being hit with a sledgehammer. I don't think many boxer's hands would last too long if they spent their time knocking down walls with their hands, even wearing gloves.