: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:31 pm  

reddan wrote:

Yes, it's almost double and credit must go to Leeds for that superb achievement. But, putting aside issues like catchment area, finances etc - perhaps Leeds have also had a bit of luck along the way. Whilst the likes of Burrows and McGuire are top-notch homegrown players, will Leeds be able to produce a couple of halves good enough to replace them in the next five years? Possibly, but by no means definitely.

A top youth system will consistently produce decent players, but not always first-team players. Taking halves as an example, Saints who also boast an impressive youth set up brought both of theirs in from other clubs.

thats understandable, and it isnt a problem, everyone (pretty much) accepts that you cant always bring through a quality youngster in that position at the time they are needed, at leeds we have McShane who will be the partner for Diskin and eventually take over for him, but right now he isnt ready to that, so Buderus is brought in for a couple of years, there is no problem with clubs working like this,

but when you are looking at having 10 or 11 overseas players, it isnt that you simply dont have players in that position, its that you dont have them at all, and there has to be a downside of this,
Wakefield have 3 overseas players who can play hooker, is there really not a youngster at Wakefield good enough to be 3rd choice hooker? shouldnt a club unable to produce a 3rd choice hooker of sufficient quality see a downside of such a pathetic effort?

do they really need 3 centres from Australia/NZ when they have Atkins and Gleeson?

do they really need both Peterson and Blanch when they have George, and Murphy?

It's so easy to label certain signings as 'NRL reserve grade' and write them off as such, but until they've had a good pop at super league, how can they be written off? Especially when many big name 'NRL first graders' have failed to make an impact.

But that isnt the point, the point isnt whether Winterstein will provide value for money, the point is Wakefield (among others) taking the easy option of going and picking up and antipodean player and taking a punt on them than scouting or bringing through a british player,

in isolation there isnt a huge amount wrong with the Winterstein signing, added to the 10 others there is

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:32 pm  

BIGAL1 wrote:

Just your opinion and it counts for ZERO.

so the same as yours then,

and isnt this a forum, for people expressing opinions? or were you expecting a list of contextless facts?

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:38 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

so the same as yours then,

and isnt this a forum, for people expressing opinions? or were you expecting a list of contextless facts?

Yes same as mine.

I love to hear posters opinions, well balanced ones are the best though, even fair and open minded will do for me, but i'm not so keen on drivel and thats the point you step in.

Still its a free country so do carry on please.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:49 pm  

BIGAL1 wrote:

Yes same as mine.

I love to hear posters opinions, well balanced ones are the best though, even fair and open minded will do for me, but i'm not so keen on drivel and thats the point you step in.

Still its a free country so do carry on please.

thank you for your permission,

to move on from your attempts at deflecting the argument,

do you think it is a good thing that in their 11th year of SL Wakefield will be using 11 antipodeans?

did you expect better? or do you truly believe that Wakefield do everything in their power to bring through as many quality young players as they can?

and if you do, how would you counter the argument that Wakefield simply arent a sustainable SL entity?

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:49 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

its not the valididty of his signing, however much you pretend it is,

its the validity of his signing when he is added to the 10 other players who have come from overseas

you can make all the lists you want regarding players like March and Spicer

it doesnt get away from the fact the the league isnt producing enough players to sustain it, evidenced by Wakefield, and HKR and Wigan and others needing soooooooo many overseas players because clubs like those mentioned are taking the easy option of relying on NRL rejects,

And clubs like Leeds and Bradford monopolising the junior talent doesn't help things either. They sign a big bulk of talent nurture a few and dump the remainding lads who subsequently leave the game feeling bitter and disgruntled.

Perhaps a cap should be placed on the number of players a team can have on its scholarship scheme thus spreading the talent more evenly. Granted the bigger/better clubs will still get the best players but the ones who would have been disgarded may well get a chance at other clubs.

You've also got to remember different players develop at different speeds and some don't come to the fore til they're in their twenties one such example being Kirke at Leeds who was 25 before he made his first team debut.

As for this not being an anti Wakey, well its obvious Marsden and smokey clearly hold a massive grudge against our club. To be fair no one else has bothered apart from another midget Wes Hooligan which is a great name for a supporter of a so called family game. Maybe a name change and some growing up is needed hey Wes?

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:57 pm  

Uptoncat wrote:

And clubs like Leeds and Bradford monopolising the junior talent doesn't help things either. They sign a big bulk of talent nurture a few and dump the remainding lads who subsequently leave the game feeling bitter and disgruntled.

so you go find more from elsewhere, if you truly dont believe wakefield can compete with Leeds and Bradford on their terms, go find your own terms to compete on, this is a competition is it not?

Perhaps a cap should be placed on the number of players a team can have on its scholarship scheme thus spreading the talent more evenly. Granted the bigger/better clubs will still get the best players but the ones who would have been disgarded may well get a chance at other clubs.

why do expect a hand out? it is silly to pretend every player with sufficient quality is picked up by Leeds or Bradford before Wakefield get a shot, Jason Golden came through at leeds despite the fact that he went to school a stones throw from Belle Vue, where Wakefield came actually came in and did a bit of training, yet he wasnt picked up by Wakefield

Ryan Hall was playing for Oulton Raiders at 18, prior to being picked up by Leeds, why didnt wakefield have him before this?

All players of Quality clearly arent picked up, and thats without even looking at other areas

surely limiting the amount of players who get quality RL coaching at SL clubs, will limit the amount of quality players who through at SL clubs

wakefield need to find a way to compete, or understand that this level is too high for them

You've also got to remember different players develop at different speeds and some don't come to the fore til they're in their twenties one such example being Kirke at Leeds who was 25 before he made his first team debut.

why arent wakey picking enough of these players up either?

As for this not being an anti Wakey, well its obvious Marsden and smokey clearly hold a massive grudge against our club. To be fair no one else has bothered apart from another midget Wes Hooligan which is a great name for a supporter of a so called family game. Maybe a name change and some growing up is needed hey Wes?

why is it a grudge against your club? you know nothing of me! i want the wakefield club to do well, i know a few of the players and staff, and i know they are talented and hardworking and good people, and i want nothing but the best for them, it doesnt get around the fact that the very top of WTW is a complete shambles

there is plenty of talent in the Wakefield area, nobody is to blame for the fact WTW dont pick enough of these up but WTW

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:16 pm  

Uptoncat wrote:

As for this not being an anti Wakey, well its obvious Marsden and smokey clearly hold a massive grudge against our club. To be fair no one else has bothered apart from another midget Wes Hooligan which is a great name for a supporter of a so called family game. Maybe a name change and some growing up is needed hey Wes?

Some people think it is very poor that any club that has been in SL 10 or so years is still signing reserve graders. Clubs that have been in 1/2 years should have some slack..but 10 years is a joke. Also having 9/10 non UK players is disappointing. Obviously many wakey fans think this is okay..so be it.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:31 pm  

Marsdengiant wrote:

Some people think it is very poor that any club that has been in SL 10 or so years is still signing reserve graders. Clubs that have been in 1/2 years should have some slack..but 10 years is a joke. Also having 9/10 non UK players is disappointing. Obviously many wakey fans think this is okay..so be it.

And up until a couple of years ago this was fine for the Giants. Not anti Wakey my booty everything you post about the wildcats is negative. I Pity you, don't you have anything else to do?

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:46 pm  

Uptoncat wrote:

And up until a year or two ago this was fine for the Giants.

Was it?

For around 4 years it has been at 7 and this year it is 5 with one more possible. In the last 3/4 years the signings have tended to be Oz grand finalists / players with rep honours. All with plenty of proven NRL experience.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:56 pm  

Marsdengiant wrote:

Was it?

For around 4 years it has been at 7 and this year it is 5 with one more possible. In the last 3/4 years the signings have tended to be Oz grand finalists / players with rep honours. All with plenty of proven NRL experience.

Actualy it's six:
Faiumu
Korkidas
Finnigan
Lolesi
B Hodgson
Whatuira