[Mild Rover]

Re: Elite Academies : Sat May 29, 2021 12:40 pm  

dboy wrote:

Holmes is from Normanton, which is considered Wakefield territory (the Knights is a Wakefield club).

Wakey have invested heavily in their academy - why should they now piggy-back Cas, who have neglected theirs?

A service-area style academy, as tried in Hull, just didn't work.

The whole thing is club first.

It would benefit from being much more player centric, imo.

The whole game should be collaborating rather than the teams in the top division chasing their narrow, though legitimate, interests.

We still won’t beat Australia on anything more than an infrequent basis, but if that is the RFL’s KPI we might as well give up anyway.

Re: Elite Academies : Sat May 29, 2021 1:26 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The whole thing is club first.

It would benefit from being much more player centric, imo.

The whole game should be collaborating rather than the teams in the top division chasing their narrow, though legitimate, interests.

We still won’t beat Australia on anything more than an infrequent basis, but if that is the RFL’s KPI we might as well give up anyway.

The formation of Super League, all those decades ago,was going to be the improvement of ' elite ' players,so the national side could defeat Australia. That has certainly worked.

Cumbria and Wales are without the elitism; so,as in football,clubs will plunder players from far and wide.

The governing body,and the clubs,should sort out the areas of responsibility,and look towards a whole game improvement. It hasn't happened- and it won't happen.

Just more people exiting the sport...

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Elite Academies : Sat May 29, 2021 2:09 pm  

How long did it take before widnes gave up on Cumbria?

They volunteered to do that region did they not?

Re: Elite Academies : Sat May 29, 2021 3:06 pm  

The whole point here is there is still no bloody strategy..
Ok, so we cut the number of SL academies to try and "concentrate " the talent in fewer "hubs".
Will this actually make a positive difference to the quality of players coming through those fewer academies ?

These things are all down to numbers and good luck and decent coaching

THE main issue for RL is to find a way of increasing the participation numbers at the bottom and then ensuring that the better players stay in the game.

Tinkering at the top, reducing academies and numbers of competing clubs in SL wont save the sport and instead of cutting SL academies, "we" should be helping those SL clubs who's academies aren't up to scratch and not binning them off.

Re: Elite Academies : Sat May 29, 2021 3:31 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote: How long did it take before widnes gave up on Cumbria? They volunteered to do that region did they not? Ah.An easy one on sport. As it's rugby league.You know short-termism,and how nothing they decide lasts for 5 minutes? Well it seems in 2015 - https://www.rugby-league.com/article/32 ... vikings-to But reading this,by 2016,it ended - https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.ph ... academies/ plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote: How long did it take before widnes gave up on Cumbria? They volunteered to do that region did they not? Ah.An easy one on sport. As it's rugby league.You know short-termism,and how nothing they decide lasts for 5 minutes? Well it seems in 2015 - https://www.rugby-league.com/article/32 ... vikings-to But reading this,by 2016,it ended - https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.ph ... academies/ plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

Re: Elite Academies : Sat May 29, 2021 3:33 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The whole point here is there is still no bloody strategy..
Ok, so we cut the number of SL academies to try and "concentrate " the talent in fewer "hubs".

Just remember, right at this moment the RFL haven't cut clubs to concentrate the talent - there are two spots unawarded.

Cas, Bulls and HKR have been deemed to be below the standards required to qualify for an A-licensed centrally-funded academy spot.

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 6:22 am  

dboy wrote:

Holmes is from Normanton, which is considered Wakefield territory (the Knights is a Wakefield club).

Wakey have invested heavily in their academy - why should they now piggy-back Cas, who have neglected theirs?

A service-area style academy, as tried in Hull, just didn't work.

"Didn't work" exactly how? Did it fail because of competing interests between two professional clubs? Or was the coaching set up useless?? Or did top kids refuse to join it because they wanted to wear the shirt of their own club? I keep reading the fact that it disbanded, but have never seen any explanation at all of how it actually "didn't work?"

Academies are actually already based on "areas" and not clubs per se. Some very big talents have come out of Halifax, Dewsbury, Widnes and Hunslet for instance. Pro-Clubs ability to fall out with each other and pursue self interest may have strangled the Hull set up, but many academies are based on players feeding in from other clubs areas.

The Huddersfield academy will in essence become the Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield academy. The Leeds academy will continue to be the Leeds, Hunslet and Dewsbury academy.

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 7:04 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The whole point here is there is still no bloody strategy.. Ok, so we cut the number of SL academies to try and "concentrate " the talent in fewer "hubs".
Will this actually make a positive difference to the quality of players coming through those fewer academies ?

THE main issue for RL is to find a way of increasing the participation numbers at the bottom and then ensuring that the better players stay in the game.

Tinkering at the top, reducing academies and numbers of competing clubs in SL wont save the sport and instead of cutting SL academies, "we" should be helping those SL clubs who's academies aren't up to scratch and not binning them off.

Good post, but the strategy always was that to be a Superleague club you had to have an effective player development system. We saw the academy come in years ago when Leeds then Wigan got the ball rolling. In recent years clubs have been pushed toward also running reserves as well although the pandemic affected that move forward.

But you then get so called Superleague clubs who can't afford an academy or a reserve team like Salford. Then clubs like Bradford keep their academy going because they hold SL ambitions. I would guess if they got into Superleague they would then be able to invest in improving their academy to the standard asked for. That some academies are not up to standard may reflect a lack of money rather than will and although you talk of "Helping" I can't see such as Cas being given SL or RFL money to "help them get up to scratch"

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 7:49 am  

dboy wrote:

Just remember, right at this moment the RFL haven't cut clubs to concentrate the talent - there are two spots unawarded.

Cas, Bulls and HKR have been deemed to be below the standards required to qualify for an A-licensed centrally-funded academy spot.

That's of course a very good point and if they up their standards they are in???.

But this may come down to Money. Salford don't even have to have an academy to be in Superleague and we know they cannot afford it.We also know Bulls are very tight financially so if raising the standards means raising the cash have they got that money?

Cas seem to have made no headway on that ground they spoke about, how their benefactor Mr, Fulton's business has been affected by covid I don't know but it could be a factor. Their top coach is being lured away no doubt by an offer he can't refuse..............

Over at HKR Mr. Hudgell has also pulled back somewhat, so is it a coincidence that these academies may not be up to scratch as the money isn't going in???

You'd certainly not cut the first team budget!!

[Mild Rover]

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 8:19 am  

Donnyman wrote:

"Didn't work" exactly how? Did it fail because of competing interests between two professional clubs? Or was the coaching set up useless?? Or did top kids refuse to join it because they wanted to wear the shirt of their own club? I keep reading the fact that it disbanded, but have never seen any explanation at all of how it actually "didn't work?"

Academies are actually already based on "areas" and not clubs per se. Some very big talents have come out of Halifax, Dewsbury, Widnes and Hunslet for instance. Pro-Clubs ability to fall out with each other and pursue self interest may have strangled the Hull set up, but many academies are based on players feeding in from other clubs areas.

The Huddersfield academy will in essence become the Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield academy. The Leeds academy will continue to be the Leeds, Hunslet and Dewsbury academy.

The COHA was graded as ‘outstanding’ by the RFL in 2017, its second year of operation. However, it was never very popular with fans (who were then happy enough to label it a failure when it disbanded after the 2019 season) and there were probably some trust issues around who would sign which players. There was a perception that some of the staff were there to represent the interests of Rovers or Hull, rather than offering even quasi-independent leadership.

The official reason for returning to academies at both clubs was the introduction of mandatory reserve teams in 2020 (aborted because of the pandemic), and the need for more players to take that preliminary step towards SL. SL clubs will still be required to run reserve teams from 2022, which now looks challenging for Rovers and Castleford, if they adopt the approach that the RFL seems to be advocating/demanding. It doesn’t feel like the most joined-up pathway strategy.