[Mild Rover]

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 8:39 am  

Donnyman wrote:

That's of course a very good point and if they up their standards they are in???.

But this may come down to Money. Salford don't even have to have an academy to be in Superleague and we know they cannot afford it.We also know Bulls are very tight financially so if raising the standards means raising the cash have they got that money?

Cas seem to have made no headway on that ground they spoke about, how their benefactor Mr, Fulton's business has been affected by covid I don't know but it could be a factor. Their top coach is being lured away no doubt by an offer he can't refuse..............

Over at HKR Mr. Hudgell has also pulled back somewhat, so is it a coincidence that these academies may not be up to scratch as the money isn't going in???

You'd certainly not cut the first team budget!!

The academy system has, for reasons I can only speculate about, offered very poor return on investment for Hull KR. This is especially true given that it has been presented as a major priority since 2012 with indications that money has in fact been directed there rather than to the first team. So I have reservations about it and would be open to the club trying something quite different - I don’t think they will, but personally I think it should be explored.

That said, with the re-establishment of an independent Hull KR academy in 2020, the club was clearly doubling down on a youth-first strategy. John Bastian’s record at other clubs is excellent and he was obviously not appointed as a cost-cutting measure. Until the pandemic curtailed activities last year, the club was putting out lengthy, in-depth, optimistic videos on the first steps of the new set-up. A lot of hopes were being pinned on it, so (from a club-first perspective) it is a metaphorical gut punch to our leadership and the fans, as well as being enormously sad for the lads in the system.

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 12:00 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

With the re-establishment of an independent Hull KR academy in 2020, the club was clearly doubling down on a youth-first strategy. John Bastian’s record at other clubs is excellent and he was obviously not appointed as a cost-cutting measure. Until the pandemic curtailed activities last year, the club was putting out lengthy, in-depth, optimistic videos on the first steps of the new set-up. A lot of hopes were being pinned on it, so (from a club-first perspective) it is a metaphorical gut punch to our leadership and the fans, as well as being enormously sad for the lads in the system.

Thank you for that interesting information. I didn't think it was so recently that HKR went back to their own academy!!

IIRC didn't Neil Hudgell provide a bit of a bombshell about "stepping down" and the club needing to look for new owners? If they don't find them or if they find owners with enthusiasm but not a lot of money isn't the HKR academy therefore under threat?

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 12:22 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The academy system has, for reasons I can only speculate about, offered very poor return on investment for Hull KR. This is especially true given that it has been presented as a major priority since 2012 with indications that money has in fact been directed there rather than to the first team. So I have reservations about it and would be open to the club trying something quite different - I don’t think they will, but personally I think it should be explored.

That said, with the re-establishment of an independent Hull KR academy in 2020, the club was clearly doubling down on a youth-first strategy. John Bastian’s record at other clubs is excellent and he was obviously not appointed as a cost-cutting measure. Until the pandemic curtailed activities last year, the club was putting out lengthy, in-depth, optimistic videos on the first steps of the new set-up. A lot of hopes were being pinned on it, so (from a club-first perspective) it is a metaphorical gut punch to our leadership and the fans, as well as being enormously sad for the lads in the system.

Again I profusely thank you for the information and again note (corrections welcome) how HKR may have decided to "take back control" of their academy that would I think have supplied the reserves side that was in the pipeline, as a requirement of the brave new world of Superleague 2022.

There now seems to be a struggle that may be down to funding for certain clubs being a lot less (especially with TV funding reducing) where owners find they don't have the money like Bulls and HKR and maybe even Cas appear to be struggling with?.

There has been talk of 2022 being "two leagues of 10" which then makes me wonder if the 10 clubs in "Superleague One" would all have to run academies and reserves......

Certainly Hull, Leeds, Wakefield, Huddersfield, Warrington Wigan and Saints can do this and Les Catalans show signs of going back to a French player development system. Newcastle also have the money to do this....... pure speculation of course but the massive drop in TV income and changing circumstances as regards which clubs will have the rich owners and which won't, may just be a driver in terms of how Superleague will set up 2022........

[Mild Rover]

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 1:29 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

Thank you for that interesting information. I didn't think it was so recently that HKR went back to their own academy!!

IIRC didn't Neil Hudgell provide a bit of a bombshell about "stepping down" and the club needing to look for new owners? If they don't find them or if they find owners with enthusiasm but not a lot of money isn't the HKR academy therefore under threat?

No problem.

Just avoid confusion, work towards the new academy for the 2020 season began in 2019 following the announcement that COHA was to be disbanded after the 2019 season. 2020 was the first season of the new or rebooted HKR academy, but obviously that was severely disrupted by the pandemic.

Neil Hudgell has stepped down as Chairman but remains owner. Paul Lakin is now leading the club in a second spell as chief executive. They are looking for new investment, but Hudgell has said he is willing to continue funding the club until some is secured and perhaps partially thereafter. I wouldn’t be so presumptuous as to take it as a blank check forever, but I don’t think funding for the academy would be any more at risk than at other clubs reliant on a benefactor, running at a loss or otherwise in a financially precarious position - which is a fair proportion of clubs, unfortunately.

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 4:50 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

No problem.

Just avoid confusion, work towards the new academy for the 2020 season began in 2019 following the announcement that COHA was to be disbanded after the 2019 season. 2020 was the first season of the new or rebooted HKR academy, but obviously that was severely disrupted by the pandemic.

Neil Hudgell has stepped down as Chairman but remains owner. Paul Lakin is now leading the club in a second spell as chief executive. They are looking for new investment, but Hudgell has said he is willing to continue funding the club until some is secured and perhaps partially thereafter. I wouldn’t be so presumptuous as to take it as a blank check forever, but I don’t think funding for the academy would be any more at risk than at other clubs reliant on a benefactor, running at a loss or otherwise in a financially precarious position - which is a fair proportion of clubs, unfortunately.

If he's continuing funding that's great. As a prominent legal company I'd guess he will always have the money' but no longer want the hassle of running the club.

Re: Elite Academies : Sun May 30, 2021 9:31 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

"Didn't work" exactly how?

Academies are actually already based on "areas" and not clubs per se. Some very big talents have come out of Halifax, Dewsbury, Widnes and Hunslet for instance. Pro-Clubs ability to fall out with each other and pursue self interest may have strangled the Hull set up, but many academies are based on players feeding in from other clubs areas.

The Huddersfield academy will in essence become the Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield academy. The Leeds academy will continue to be the Leeds, Hunslet and Dewsbury academy.

I'll leave it to others to decide why the Hull merged academy didn't work - but it's a fact it didn't work.

Academies are not area based - per se or otherwise.

You're talking out of your booty.

Re: Elite Academies : Mon May 31, 2021 6:52 am  

dboy wrote:

I'll leave it to others to decide why the Hull merged academy didn't work - but it's a fact it didn't work.

How do you know it didn't work when you can't articulate why, and have to appeal to others to back you up.

What fixtures didn't they complete? Did they lose most of their games? Did the players go backwards in their development?.

As mild rover says:- "The City of Hull academy was graded as ‘outstanding’ by the RFL in 2017" so it worked.

Over to you or do you want to "leave it"

Re: Elite Academies : Mon May 31, 2021 12:15 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

How do you know it didn't work when you can't articulate why, and have to appeal to others to back you up.

What fixtures didn't they complete? Did they lose most of their games? Did the players go backwards in their development?.

As mild rover says:- "The City of Hull academy was graded as ‘outstanding’ by the RFL in 2017" so it worked.

Over to you or do you want to "leave it"

It worked so well that the clubs had already scrapped it.

If it was working, it would have been kept as a merged academy.

Re: Elite Academies : Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:34 am  

dboy wrote:

It worked so well that the clubs had already scrapped it.

If it was working, it would have been kept as a merged academy.

It worked as an eliite academy producing the best quality players possible, and not dragging players who were never going to make it out of the community game and depleting that game. Otherwise it would not have scored so well.

It didn't work for the self interest of the clubs and personal preferences at the clubs, who reportedly just liked "having their own team" so they went back to dragging in many kids that were never going to make it thus affecting community clubs badly.

Read the posts, don't leave out the fact that the clubs preferred to see the kids in their own club shirts to having a stronger set up.

Re: Elite Academies : Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:07 am  

Donnyman wrote:

It worked as an eliite academy producing the best quality players possible, and not dragging players who were never going to make it out of the community game and depleting that game. Otherwise it would not have scored so well.

It didn't work for the self interest of the clubs and personal preferences at the clubs, who reportedly just liked "having their own team" so they went back to dragging in many kids that were never going to make it thus affecting community clubs badly.

Read the posts, don't leave out the fact that the clubs preferred to see the kids in their own club shirts to having a stronger set up.

All clubs have swarms of kids that go through their systems and dont actually have a decent chance of "making it", which applies to all sports.
If a club can produce 1 or 2 players each season they are "winning" but, you cant just have those "gems" as it's a team sport.

To suggest that clubs are "depriving the community game" of players is utterly ridiculous and whether those players make it into SL or not, they will improve as RL players and when they return to the community game later on, assuming that they stay within the sport, not only will they be better players, able to share their experience, they will also be happy that they "gave it a go.

The issue is numbers right at the bottom 6,7,8 year old's and RL has to find a way to keep these lads coming into the game.