FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - another ellis article
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman7155No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years339th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Sep 24 04:131st Sep 24 23:56LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Sydney 2000

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:53 am  
dally messenger wrote:
ill conceed that halves and five eights make around 15 - 25 tackles a game, not the 30 i claimed.



Half backs: out of the 19 players to have played in that position this season. 7 of them have an average of under 15 tackles.

Seymour 14
Campbell 11
Marshall 9.3
Prince 9
Orford 9
Mullen 8.5
Hornby 8


Five eighths: out of the 19 players to have played in that position this season. 7 of them have an average of under 15 tackles.

Rogers 14.5
Anasta 13.3
Dureau 13
Barrett 12.7
Roberts 12.5
Soward 12.3
Barba 5

In fact the only half to get over 25 tackles was Cameron Smith who played 5/8th in one game with 34.


That's more than ONE THIRD don't come into the reckoning
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member13619No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 19 200222 years5th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Nov 24 11:1020th Nov 24 22:29LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
West Yorkshire

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:58 am  
dally messenger wrote:
2. tim smiths form was laughed at.


I think we laughed at him because an NRL dally M winner cannot get into a poor wigan side because of an 18 year old junior, and when he has played he has been dire to say the least.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach12958No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 26 200718 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
23rd Jul 11 01:4822nd Jul 11 09:12LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:55 am  
christopher wrote:
I think we laughed at him because an NRL dally M winner cannot get into a poor wigan side because of an 18 year old junior, and when he has played he has been dire to say the least.



it wasnt you it was someone else.

tim smith has had a lot of problems with alcohol. hes not interested at wigan.

if he comes back to the nrl and gets his head right, he is a fantastic player.

i rate smith quite a bit.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach12958No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 26 200718 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
23rd Jul 11 01:4822nd Jul 11 09:12LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:57 am  
Rooster Booster wrote:
Half backs: out of the 19 players to have played in that position this season. 7 of them have an average of under 15 tackles.

Seymour 14
Campbell 11
Marshall 9.3
Prince 9
Orford 9
Mullen 8.5
Hornby 8


Five eighths: out of the 19 players to have played in that position this season. 7 of them have an average of under 15 tackles.

Rogers 14.5
Anasta 13.3
Dureau 13
Barrett 12.7
Roberts 12.5
Soward 12.3
Barba 5

In fact the only half to get over 25 tackles was Cameron Smith who played 5/8th in one game with 34.


That's more than ONE THIRD don't come into the reckoning


why are you picking the lowest amount of tacklers?

thats a biased way to do it.
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman7155No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 years339th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Sep 24 04:131st Sep 24 23:56LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Sydney 2000

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:07 pm  
dally messenger wrote:
why are you picking the lowest amount of tacklers?

thats a biased way to do it.



You said

ill conceed that halves and five eights make around 15 - 25 tackles a game, not the 30 i claimed."


Fact is, more than one third of all halves make less.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach12958No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 26 200718 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
23rd Jul 11 01:4822nd Jul 11 09:12LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:17 pm  
Rooster Booster wrote:
You said

ill conceed that halves and five eights make around 15 - 25 tackles a game, not the 30 i claimed."


Fact is, more than one third of all halves make less.


so you decided to pick the lowest after that to make your point
OK thats sounds really fair.

edit : to be clear, i was also ONLY talking about five eigths.

i know you english you use half to mean both but i wasnt talking about halves.

its about the 6 position
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman18060No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 27 200223 years325th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
11th Jun 23 20:4411th Jun 23 20:53LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
On the road
Signature
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:46 pm  
dally messenger wrote:
just to put it into perspective :

1. weve had the best tackler in the nrl critisised for his tackling technique and compared to mcguire. anyone that knows the first thing about the nrl knows nathan hindmarsh is the best tackler there.

i provided stats that show he does 50 tackles a game, i was told it was wrong. it wasnt wrong.

2. tim smiths form was laughed at. hes never done anything in the nrl. when i pointed out his nrl form was quite good, and indeed hed won the Dally M rookie of the year, the poster refused to listen.

3. brett finch was said to be a poor half back and danny mcguire better. when i reminded the person taht brett finch has not only played origin but also won them.

and if you go back to my original post, i didnt say mcguire was a bad player. all i said was i didnt think his defence was good enough for a 6 spot. many other people that seem to know about the nrl agreed with me.


ill conceed that halves and five eights make around 15 - 25 tackles a game, not the 30 i claimed.


You need to read the posts on this thread if you are able to:

1. I never said Hindmarsh was poor tackler all I did was compare his missed tackle for the try against Canberra to McGuire's one missed tackle in the WCC. If McGuire was a speed bump for that one missed tackle then surely the same logic applies to Hindmarsh's missed tackle. You also suggested he doesn't miss any tackles - the stats suggest otherwise - I agree stats can be misleading and depending on how you interpret them to me if a player is able to offload in the tackle then that is not a lot different from a miss.

2. Brett Finch has played 3 games of origin the last in 2006 - the point that seems lost on you is that was three years ago - Wendell Sailor was a great player with significantly more origins under his belt than Finch, only a fool would suggest he is as good a player as he was before he went to union - the same applies to Finch, he looked a reasonable player in a very good Roosters side sadly he is playing an average side and is now looking like what he is a very average NRL half back with as much chance of playing origin as Gareth Ellis. Matt King is another example - he looked a great player when playing in a very good side coached by the best coach in the NRL - take him out of that environment and his true colours have been exposed.

3. Tim Smith as I said hasn't played in the NRL for 12 months his form has dipped dramatically in the previous year to a point where he was struggling to get selected in a poor Eels outfit. Whilst he may not be interested in playing in SL and has stated he wants to return to the NRL surely his own professional pride should prevent him from embarrassing himself everytime he takes the field. He doesn't appear to have any offers from NRL clubs which must tell you something - let's face it Barrett had little problem finding another club. His defence has been exposed big style which is surprising for a player who has been through the NRL system. To me he looked a great player and it is often difficult to accept that they cannot kick on from what seems a very high standard and they have peaked at a very young age.

With regards to McGuire I don't think his defence would be an issue in the NRL - he is a player that polarises opinions - even amongst Leeds fans - he is one of the most targeted half backs in SL in a team with the best defensive record in the league - his tackling stats compare very favourably with any half back in SL. In the NRL half backs need a long kick - I thought the Eels v Raiders game was union game the ball spent so much time in the air - this is one weakness in his game.

Glad to see you have finally admitted you overcooked the tackles for a half back :D

Now try avoid scoring points and respond to the points raised above in a resonable manner and it might help to recover some lost ground.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach12958No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 26 200718 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
23rd Jul 11 01:4822nd Jul 11 09:12LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:50 pm  
am i still allowed to laugh when you raise points which i think are simply ludicrous.

if you want a reasonable debate just admit when you are wrong like i did.

you were wrong on hindmarsh, smith and finch.

very, very wrong.
Jonesy 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1213No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 23 200816 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
5th Oct 17 12:4115th Jun 12 15:03LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:52 pm  
Dally,
As a fellow Aussie can I ask you to give it up Mate.

You "patrol" two forums and blanket them with your opinions to the point of suffocating any other debate.
Unless you are incapacitated and this is your main focus in life its time to get a life Matey.
I have never like the term "Ugly Aussie" and always thought it was bullsh@t but you are making me think there is some truth in it.
Get onto "Sportal" forums and get a robust debate going there.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman18060No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 27 200223 years325th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
11th Jun 23 20:4411th Jun 23 20:53LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
On the road
Signature
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:03 pm  
dally messenger wrote:
am i still allowed to laugh when you raise points which i think are simply ludicrous.

if you want a reasonable debate just admit when you are wrong like i did.

you were wrong on hindmarsh, smith and finch.

very, very wrong.


We must agree to differ - on the half backs you had little option the stats made your claims look stupid. The rest is a matter of conjecture - your view against mine - who is right and who is wrong cannot be agreed.

On Hindmarsh if I had said he was a bad defender OK but I didn't - all I did was compare one missed tackle with another.

On Finch you think because he kicked a drop goal in an origin game 3 years ago that makes him a good player - I don't agree on what I see on the TV - that is a matter of opinion.

On Smith you think because he won the Dally M rookie in 2005 that makes him a good player now - I pointed out his recent form has been poor a point even you agreed with - whether he can recapture the form of 2005 even you don't know - I have seen Smith live 5 times and his influence on the result has been non-existent going forward but calamitous in defence. I am basing my opinion on the here and now you are basing your opinion on form of 3/4 years ago.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 99 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to The Virtual Terrace


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
2025 Recruitment
Bulls4Champs
213
Recent
Squad numbers
Phuzzy
5
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
15s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Chris71
4056
18s
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2618
28s
Pre Season - 2025
number 6
199
54s
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
534
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40816
1m
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
2m
2025 Recruitment
Bulls4Champs
213
2m
Rumours and signings v9
jonh
28909
2m
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
NickyKiss
15
2m
Salford
rubber ducki
61
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Phuzzy
5
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
2
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Spookisback
38
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
2025 Recruitment
Bulls4Champs
213
Recent
Squad numbers
Phuzzy
5
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
15s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Chris71
4056
18s
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2618
28s
Pre Season - 2025
number 6
199
54s
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
534
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40816
1m
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
2m
2025 Recruitment
Bulls4Champs
213
2m
Rumours and signings v9
jonh
28909
2m
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
NickyKiss
15
2m
Salford
rubber ducki
61
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Phuzzy
5
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
2
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Spookisback
38
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!