: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:39 am  

From the games I've watched so far I agree that a slower ptb is putting the emphasis back on the half-backs (a good thing)...however some of the half-backs so far have struggled to shoulder the responsibility convincingly, Sherwin at Cas seems the best so far.
Strangely Diskin has looked far better than last season.....his decision making has been very impressive and when he's run (especially against Manly) he's made good yardage.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Is Potter right : Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:44 am  

Forever FC wrote: Or is he just whinging? As the rules are the same for all teams. http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4196861.Potter_queries_impact_of_slower_rucks/ I feel a slower ruck would make the players have to be more creative so lets hope it stays the way its started. Opinions?? i think he's a cheeky get when you consider how penalised the dragons were for holding down and messing about in the ruck.

Forever FC wrote: Or is he just whinging? As the rules are the same for all teams. http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4196861.Potter_queries_impact_of_slower_rucks/ I feel a slower ruck would make the players have to be more creative so lets hope it stays the way its started. Opinions?? i think he's a cheeky get when you consider how penalised the dragons were for holding down and messing about in the ruck.

: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:20 pm  

eddiewaringsflatcap wrote:

As a Saints fan I disagree with Potter to an extent.

Yes we suffer when teams try to slow us down, and it does not benefit our flamboyant style of play.

And yet, given the expansive rugby Saints play this has always been a tactic many teams try, not a particularly new phenomenon. For example Huddersfield deliberately tried to 'nobble' Alex Murphy and Tom Van Vollenhoven back in the 60's. A quality team has to adapt.

But there is a bigger issue at stake, and that is the quick PTB reducing skill in general.

It has been a common feature of super league to see a little winger scurry into a tackle, and be half way to already playing the ball before he is tackled - i.e he 'surrenders' himself to earn a qucik PTB.

It is cheap and absolutely horrible for the purist to watch. It is followed by the hooker scooting for an easy gain and this has been a centre piece of not only the majority of SL teams tactics, but the British team itself.

It is no cooincidence we have suffered an alarming decline in the standard of our halfbacks (which neatly coincides with the rise of so called star hookers).

The SL has sacrificed skill and vision in place of brute force and a quick scamper. It is so boring to watch.

It has led to the rise of one dimensional players such as Mickey Higham, who we conveniently ignore cannot pass a rugby ball at the expense of the old Andy Greg's who could break a defence down with subtle touches.

The 'case for the defence' long needed to be restated. For too long good, physical defence has been countered by the bizzare need to 'roll away' or 'MOVVVVE!'

I actually would not have been surprised if we had brought in a rule that forced defenders to help the ball player to his feet at one point.

What a post. Agree with all of that.

If Britain in general is ever going to compete on an International stage again then we have to slow the PTB right down and create players with the creativity to open a defence up.

: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:22 pm  

eddiewaringsflatcap wrote:

It is no cooincidence we have suffered an alarming decline in the standard of our halfbacks (which neatly coincides with the rise of so called star hookers).

It also neatly coincides with record crowds and record TV deals.

I'll happily admit the quick ptb's are hampering creative play, but there's a trade off with the speed of the game that makes it such an attractive alternative to RU.

: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:29 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

It also neatly coincides with record crowds and record TV deals.

Perhaps the fast play has attacted a fair number of new support. It eaiser to watch a 20 - 30 match with many simple tries then a 6 - 12 match with only one or two creative scores.

20-20 cricket is perhaps more popular then the tradition 5 day test series but it's certainly not the most skilful.

: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:30 pm  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

Perhaps the fast play has attacted a fair number of new support. It eaiser to watch a 20 - 30 match with many simple tries then a 6 - 12 match with only one or two creative scores.

20-20 cricket is perhaps more popular then the tradition 5 day test series but it's certainly not the most skilful.

Agree totally, and I personally back slowing the ptbs down.

But we have to be careful about how much slower we allow the game to become.

Re: Is Potter right : Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:49 pm  

Forever FC wrote: Or is he just whinging? As the rules are the same for all teams. http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4196861.Potter_queries_impact_of_slower_rucks/ I feel a slower ruck would make the players have to be more creative so lets hope it stays the way its started. Opinions?? The problem is Potter wants teams to let Saints play the ball quickly but be allowed to slow the opponents down and set their own line at 8/9 metres - if he wants a game with quick PTB then he must instruct his defenders not to slow the PTB down!!!

Forever FC wrote: Or is he just whinging? As the rules are the same for all teams. http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4196861.Potter_queries_impact_of_slower_rucks/ I feel a slower ruck would make the players have to be more creative so lets hope it stays the way its started. Opinions?? The problem is Potter wants teams to let Saints play the ball quickly but be allowed to slow the opponents down and set their own line at 8/9 metres - if he wants a game with quick PTB then he must instruct his defenders not to slow the PTB down!!!

: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:02 pm  

Its not difficult to see where he is coming from, Saints are probably the strongest side around the ruck area. The problem is that I think most British RL supporters are fed up with the way the game in Britain is now so lacking in skill level. I'd hope we want to go back to seeing skillful play set up tries through creative halves and proper threequarters. Right now it isn't about that, its about easy, quick yards through the middle and then give it to your quickest man to sprint at a gap due to an unset defence and its a pretty poor level of rugby. We get shown time and again by the Aussies and Kiwis how the game must be played to succeed at the highest level.

I am quite prepared to watch Saints struggle more if it gives me the chance to GB/England beat the Australians in a series,WC, whatever.