Re: Greatest player of all time? : Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:58 pm  

of course it's a question that cannot be answered really as all of us never saw the great players of the latter half of the C19 and first half of last century, the evidence is all annecdotal, and records patchy in some cases. also you get the arguments over which position a player played, so maybe you are better off coming up with the greatest fullback, winger, scrum half etc. etc.

one question you could ask therefore is which position do you think the greatest player of all time would/should occupy?

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:05 pm  

If you are basing your judgment strictly on all round rugby league talent then there is no doubt that Andrew Johns is the greatest player of all time.

Andrew Johns had a unique capability to see a football field player alignment and create scoring opportunities for himself or his team mates based on that. He was a great passer of the ball, the best field kicker of all time (he even invented the banana kick) and a great goal kicker (one of the top point scorers of all time). On top of that he was a very strong defender. As a running half back he also had a sidestep and a good dummy. But he was the greatest because he was simply the most creative player of all time.

Everyone else mentioned lines up behind Andrew Johns. It is worth noting that Andrew Johns was added to the most select group of Australian players -- the NRL Immortals -- less than ten years after he retired, and before older and highly respected contenders like Malcolm Meninga.

To suggest that Neil Fox was a better player is laughable. List Fox's skills and then compare them with the list I have enumerated for Johns. No contest. Fox was not even as formidable as Malcolm Meninga.

Darren Lockyer was very talented but was a weak defender, unlike Johns.

Ellery Hanley was one of the great English players of all time, and definitely world class, but he lacked several of the skills in Johns' repertoire.

Roger Millward was a brilliant running five eighth, perhaps the best five eighth that England has produced, but did not have all the skills that Johns had.

I would place Johnathan Thurston ahead of several of the players mentioned above, especially obviously Neil Fox. But even the brilliant Thurston stands behind Andrew Johns.

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:15 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

If you are basing your judgment strictly on all round rugby league talent then there is no doubt that Andrew Johns is the greatest player of all time.

I stopped reading after that first line, absolute b0llocks, not even close.
You put no weight into your arguement whatsoever or have you only being watching rugby for the last 20 years or so..what a noob..

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:52 am  

Johns is easily the best to play the game.
The game I always remember when thinking about his versatility is a Newcastle V Cronulla game where Cronulla had four quality props - Lang, Beattie, Stevens and another I can't recall - who decided the way to beat Newcastle was to run at Johns. I should say that Newcastle had a very weak forward pack on the day due to injuries.
Anyway, Johns sat four rep standard props on their backsides time after time after time with little help from his forwards for 70 minutes, then turned on 10 minutes of attacking brillance to score a try and set up another to pinch a victory.
No other halfback was often the best defender and best attacking player on the field on the same day, as he often was, and then kicked goals at nearly 90%, just for fun.

Another moment that sticks in my mind - Newcastle V Roosters at SFS. Roosters had a very strong side and were expected to win. They led easily till about halfway through the second half when Joey came to life and snatched victory from the Jaws of defeat. The Roosters fans were devastated and stood outside the ground chanting what they thought was a massive insult to departing Knights fans, "You're a one man team". As a Knights fan I was never prouder. Their "insult" was music to my ears.

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:38 am  

Cronus wrote:

Kevin Sinfield

I thought the question was 'greatest' not 'overrated'.

It would have to be Hanley for me. An absolute Beast of a player who did not need to be a great tackler or tactician to be considered.

Not many players from the 80's and 90's would easily slot in todays modern era of RL, but hanley is definitely one of them.

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:37 am  

It is an impossible question really. How do you do say whether a winger was better than a prop, especally in the days of specialism and competitive scrums,

I don't think many of us would able to comment on pre-WW2 but I guess some of British RLs best players came from that era.

As someone who started watching as a child in the early 1960s I just missed out on the best years of a number of the British all time greats. However, I once asked my dad the question and after a few moments reflection he said Brian Bevan. Objectively, he was the best wing man of all time and one of the / the most exciting player of all time with ball in hand.

As I said though, there are many facets to RL and finishing (even as I understand it often from your own in goal area!) is but one. Neil Foxas always a player I admired and arguably the best all round British player? A sort of Daley Thompson - superb at everything, but not necessarily the best centre, best tackler, best kicker, etc of all time.

Then there are those players who coud control and dominate a game themselves, Murppy, Fulton, etc and those who could produce the big play when it mattered - Fittler, Lockyer, Meninga spring to mind.

Then there are all those comparatively unrecognised players that set the platform to win games. Maqybe the best players of all time have been forwards? In my time some of the best forwards have been the unheralded ones - those who do the hard work quietly - never missing tackles, not making mistakes, but rarely doiung anything flash. Maybe one of those is in fact the best player or maybe to be a great you have to have that something extra to turn a game?

How do you choose?

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:45 am  

Andrew Johns is the greatest player I've seen.

Although Greg Inglis is the most complete Rugby League player I've ever seen.

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:15 am  

Ellery Hanley is the greatest.

Andrew Johns would have been up there with him but for the fact that he was a drug taking (rhymes with)anchor.

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:20 am  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

An almost impossible question to answer.

The biggest problem is that certain people of certain ages can only comment on their particular era.

Also, comparing players in different positions is sometimes tough. And finally players who played in particularly successful and dominant sides can perhaps appear better than they really were.

That said, having a recollection of roughly 1990 onwards and having a season ticket at Saints throughout that period, I would say off the top of my head:

1. Darren Lockyer
2. Andrew Johns
3. Paul Sculthorpe
4. Andy Farrell
5. Keiron Cunningham

From this period would have Freddie fitter in there as well

Re: Greatest player of all time? : Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:23 am  

Joey johns and mal maninga for me