Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:08 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

They've also tried to claim that Hohaia deliberately tried to block him - which is only the case if you consider Hohaia turning to chase the kick himself as a deliberate block... There was absolutely no need for him to make any contact with him whilst chasing the kick ... Of course why let the facts get in the way.

This is the problem with defending the indefensible, you have to just keep throwing enough mud until some sticks.

Oh please. That would be correct, if not for the fact he stands looking at Flower long enough to bounce on his toes twice and then step into his path, only turning his back so late as to try and make it look like an accidental obstruction.

Such tricks are common and widely practiced in the game. If you believe otherwise you're either naive or clueless.

But why let the facts get in the way...

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:08 pm  

So will anyone dare take a cheap shot at Mr Flowers next season?

I agree the second punch was awful, but not really sure Flowers realised he'd KO'd the thug already. No, I'm not gonna apologise for taking a different stance, too often these "late" hitters get off scot-free, and YES I DO believe coaches actually "coach" them to go in late and cheap!

It's a shame really because that one incident has taken all the conversation away from the rest of the game, which as a neutral I found rivetting. The sending off seemed to galvanise Wigan and for a good period it looked like Saints were the ones a man down. Then in the second half, Saints displayed total proffesionalism and did exactly what was required with no frills.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:10 pm  

headhunter wrote:

No, this is the photograph of Hohaia running 15 yards to smash an unsuspecting Ben Flower in the jaw.

Yes, but what's your view on what happened afterwards?
I'd be interested to know if you think Flower was in the wrong when punching an unconscious man?

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:13 pm  

nottinghamtiger wrote:

Yes, but what's your view on what happened afterwards?
I'd be interested to know if you think Flower was in the wrong when punching an unconscious man?

Do you think Flower knew he was unconscious?

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:14 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Ben Flower?



Nathan Brown knew what he was talking about. Finally and quite publicly, the brutal dirty tactics of Wigan have been exposed. We all knew they were damaging the sport, plenty of the most respected opposing coaches danced around the issue, not wanting to say it as openly as perhaps they should have. Now the whole wider sporting world has seen it on our biggest stage.

Flower is to blame of course. But the thuggish mindset set by Shaun Wane is what has caused this - it's win at all costs, win at every cost. His players should go out and injure the opposition, test their joints, test out their injuries. Especially the key opposition players.

Everyone in Rugby League is celebrating that these thugs haven't, once again, managed to mindlessly bulldoze their way to trophies by turning their backs on the spirit of Rugby League.

Good points, its about time the Wigan Club has been exposed for its Thugby tactics and hopefully get back to rugby league played in a tough but honest manner. We were getting close to league playing "in the win at all costs" manner, can you imagine young kids trying to emulate this style, parents don't want it turning into a brutal sport with serious injury outcomes.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:15 pm  

CrusaderPete wrote:

I agree the second punch was awful, but not really sure Flowers realised he'd KO'd the thug already.

He didn't realise a man lying on the floor and not moving after a punch to the head might be unconscious? What exactly would Hohaia need to have looked like for Flower to realise he was out cold?

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:16 pm  

headhunter wrote: No, this is the photograph of Hohaia running 15 yards to smash an unsuspecting Ben Flower in the jaw. Running 15 yards = being a yard away after chasing a kick. Smash him in the jaw = shove him with his arms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eie7maojvr0 It's foul play by Hohaia, roughly equivalent to the foul play by Flower a couple of seconds before. Like I've said before, no real problem with Flower giving him a right-hander toe-to-toe, although that's an escalation on the previous two fouls. The punch on the floor is something else again, and no amount of stills or fog-knitting could convince that it was merited or excusable.

headhunter wrote: No, this is the photograph of Hohaia running 15 yards to smash an unsuspecting Ben Flower in the jaw. Running 15 yards = being a yard away after chasing a kick. Smash him in the jaw = shove him with his arms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eie7maojvr0 It's foul play by Hohaia, roughly equivalent to the foul play by Flower a couple of seconds before. Like I've said before, no real problem with Flower giving him a right-hander toe-to-toe, although that's an escalation on the previous two fouls. The punch on the floor is something else again, and no amount of stills or fog-knitting could convince that it was merited or excusable.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:17 pm  

Wigan fans posting the incident after the bit where Flower started it all.

rewriting history.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:18 pm  

nottinghamtiger wrote:

Yes, but what's your view on what happened afterwards?
I'd be interested to know if you think Flower was in the wrong when punching an unconscious man?

Of course he was, although in his defense there was roughly one second between the first and second punches in real time, clearly not enough time to register that Hohaia was already unconscious.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:19 pm  

littlerich wrote:

Do you think Flower knew he was unconscious?

Hohaia was lying on the floor and not moving following a punch to the head. I'd say it doesn't take a genius to realise he might be unconscious and therefore not punch him in the head again.