Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:32 pm  

So all agreed red card for both? 2 forearm smashes and 2 punches should mean a visit to the disciplinary.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:32 pm  

Wow. Some of the "defence"/mitigation on here for the altercation is quite amusing.

Hohaia must have said something - you can see him looking at Flower for a few secs before turning and running to chase ball.

As he does, Flower comes in with a swinging arm that makes contact with the head. Hohaia clearly takes offence to this and runs back and shoves him across the top of the chest/side of his cheek with forearm. Wasn't an elbow, nor was it particularly "aggressive" with intent to cause injury - more a bit of handbags.

Flower punches him square in the face back, knocking him out. Then punches him from what I can see on the eye socket. Flower falls on him and is looking at him. There's enough time to pull out and/or realise the man is unconscious.

Should be banned for 8+ in sporting terms.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:33 pm  

I have just got back from the game and have not read the thread. My thoughts: I decades of watching RL I cannot recall anything as bad as that (I am not sure even Les Boyd did anything that bad?); I thought it was an act of thuggery and although have never believed in getting lawyers involved in sport I think either the police should take action or there should be a civil action; Flower cost Wigan the game after just c. 90 seconds and if I was running the club would sack him for that (let alone his actions); shocking "advert" for the game and sets it back years. Aside from that I enjoyed the match - a scrappy affair with two panicky teams who couldn't hold onto the ball or create chances but it was close and league champions won, which is how it should be.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:33 pm  

Wigg'n wrote:

Did you take that picture with a potato? I've seen better quality images from the 1850's.

No sadly the image is poor as it's in the middle of a phase out between the screen in the sky room.

Yes it's a poor image but not having the Wiganers re-writing history.

The forearm smashes were started by flower, from behind on Lance.

Lance should not have followed up. I've said that. But Flower started and finished this entire episode.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:33 pm  

craigizzard wrote:

By your extremely loose definition of forearm-smash, Hohaia had just been blindsided by one in the back of the head.

As I'm not from Wigan, I don't have the time or inclination to find a misleading still photo, but it's all clear enough on the full speed video.

No he hadn't, in fact the video that you yourself posted quite clearly shows Hohaia moving into Flower's path while chasing a kick and subsequently being knocked down, no 'blindsiding' at all. The only 'blindsiding' that took place was this:


I'm also quite clearly not from Wigan BTW.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:35 pm  

Utterly disgraceful. The stuff before it, lets face it Wigan fans was nothing. The swinging arm by Flower on Hohaia that started it was a penalty, nothing more. The push, and it was a pushing motion, by Hohaia on Flower was another penalty worthy incident. The punch from Flower was worthy of a red these days under the new rules, but would probably have been excused were it not for the final hit.

That was utterly shocking and he really should be facing criminal charges as well as a massive ban. Cowardly doesn't go far enough, and again very disappointing to see Wane supporting him, but would expect nothing less.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:36 pm  

DannyT wrote:

So all agreed red card for both? 2 forearm smashes and 2 punches should mean a visit to the disciplinary.

I would have no problem with Hohaia been called in front of the panel, he clearly makes contact with Flower's head.

I would also have no problem with Flower been dealt with through the courts, his attack on an unconscious man is criminal whether on the streets or on the field of play.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:37 pm  

Anyhow, what a crap Grand Final utterly devoid of any quality.

At least the Hohaia/Flower incidents provided a welcome distraction.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:40 pm  

nottinghamtiger wrote:

I would also have no problem with Flower been dealt with through the courts, his attack on an unconscious man is criminal whether on the streets or on the field of play.

If you start going down that route where does it stop?

Should every fight in RL be dealt with through the courts? A 1v1 fight in the street is also a criminal offence.

Re: Ben Flower : Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:43 pm  

not every fight in RL involves a player punching another, who is unconscious and defenceless.
thats the thing here,that some wigan fans just don't get.