Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:00 pm  

Superted wrote:

Been saying the same about Widdop for years, and been ridiculed often for it. People think because he's playing in the NRL, he must be great, he's far from it. He's a manufactured half. Yes he's used to playing against NRL defences, he's also used to losing against them and creating bugger all in terms of chances for his team - he's very much brought his NRL form from the last 2 years with him. GARBAGE!

He a typical Melbourne 'support act'. Knows how to play to a strict game plan (Thus allowing Cronk, Smith and Slater to do their thing), and will never divert from it, playing his simple role in the Melbourne team, he looked effective. But it was clear he was never going to be a top class playmaker in his own right. So many clubs have been burnt spending a fortune on players who look great in the Melbourne system, but who are gash once they leave it. Kevin Proctor is another who's just signed for big money with the Titans - watch him go there and be a steady Eddie like nearly all the others that leave Melbourne.

Some very valid points there. I was a bit worried about us getting a dud when we signed Mahe Fonua for the reasons you mention, but he seems to be an exception.

Widdop is very frustrating to watch. He clearly has a lot of ability, but doesn't seem to have the first clue how to put the pieces together.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:11 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

I felt this time it would be unfair to single out any player(s) for a poor performance. Bottom line was just the Aussies are better. It's not that our lads cocked up - I think they played as well as they could. It's just that the Aussies, particularly 1-7, are man on man better than our lads - more athletic, faster, more balanced, bigger, faster of thought.

Those Aussies out there are drawn from the best natural athletes their nation produces. Ours are drawn from the decent lads who don't play football from along the M62 corridor. The England RL team which could beat the Aussies is probably playing lower league soccer this weekend, and I struggle to see how we change that.

I go with this. We just don't have the depth. Kids who are good at sport tend to be good at more than one, and if they are going to try for professional standard it eventually comes down to the one they a) have an aptitude for and b) can actually make pay. The rewards for playing pro-RL are too low if you can turn you and to something else. I always think of a player like Stephen Myler, a fringe SL player who managed to carve a very decent career out of RU because what he could do was well rewarded in RU.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:27 pm  

In an alternative universe, Tomkins and Lomax would have played predominantly in the halves for their clubs, Kyle Eastmond would still be playing RL and Danny Brough would not be pretending he's Scottish, and we would look pretty good at 6 and 7. We may even have won today.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:37 pm  

Loyal Leeds Fan wrote:

In an alternative universe, Tomkins and Lomax would have played predominantly in the halves for their clubs, Kyle Eastmond would still be playing RL

It's like we lost a whole generation of potential international halves by being obsessed about putting them at FB. You could maybe add ratchford to that list also.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:11 pm  

The scary thing is there's virtually nothing coming through the Junior system to replace those who've played today.

Ben Currie, if he ever fully recovers from his injury
Oliver Gildart is a prospect but is probably too light for international centre
Tom Johnstone and Dom Manfredi on the wings

but who else is there. . . . ?

As a sport we've made decisions that are shrinking our player base to critical levels and we've all but destroyed the player pathways. Removing any kind of selective process below age U16 and disbanding the Reserves has mortaly wounded the development process. Even if we reversed those decions tomorrow it will take 5 to 10 years before the system starts showing signs of recovery.

The RFL, The Community Game, BARLA and most of all the club centric, selfish CEOs need to pull their heads out from up their derrières and soon or they'll be no point in holding international competitions.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:51 pm  

I'd say one lesson, particularly for the backs is that we are some way off in strength and conditioning (again). Joe Burgess, Hardaker and now Percival are way too lightweight. Even Kallum Watkins if he played in Aus would probably add another half stone.

Halfback is clearly our biggest problem. Our best hope for next year vat least is Tomkins getting fit and (wherever he plays) adding some potency out wide. Its possible Aussiegate may rear its head though, as Bennett was clearly unimpressed by the options available.

Our error rates are way too high. The Burgess twins are always liable to drop the ball cold at some stage, and Sam also. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though as I think we'll see a bigger and stronger Sam Burgess next year. He lost a lot of power trying to become a Union centre and hasn't had an off season to bulk up.

As for Bennett, he went with a squad which was largely expected. His aim is next year's WC, and he's a very smart operator. I suspect he will have given all the squad goals for next year, but for some there won't be a second chance. He will basically used this tournament as an opportunity to see what players can do, and how they react on the big stage. I sort of see where he's coming from when he talks about confidence - a lot of our mistakes come from players pushing things in a way they wouldn't in club games.

As for those suggesting Wane. Please. His up and at 'em approach failed miserably in successive WCC games (including making Roosters reserve grade halfbacks look like the best in the world). He has zero experience of winning against the best, and virtually none of coaching against them. Ditto every other SL coach. I still think getting Bennett is a massive coup - if anything for this 4N it was a year too late.

Re: Team to face Australia : Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:09 am  

The Avenger wrote:

The scary thing is there's virtually nothing coming through the Junior system to replace those who've played today.

Ben Currie, if he ever fully recovers from his injury
Oliver Gildart is a prospect but is probably too light for international centre
Tom Johnstone and Dom Manfredi on the wings

but who else is there. . . . ?

As a sport we've made decisions that are shrinking our player base to critical levels and we've all but destroyed the player pathways. Removing any kind of selective process below age U16 and disbanding the Reserves has mortaly wounded the development process. Even if we reversed those decions tomorrow it will take 5 to 10 years before the system starts showing signs of recovery.

The RFL, The Community Game, BARLA and most of all the club centric, selfish CEOs need to pull their heads out from up their derrières and soon or they'll be no point in holding international competitions.

I think Sutcliffe has all the ability to make an international class half but Im not sure he could put it on the pitch under pressure.
I also like Dec Patton at Wire an hope that TS has the guts to drop Gidley for him.

Re: Team to face Australia : Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:15 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

I'd say one lesson, particularly for the backs is that we are some way off in strength and conditioning (again). Joe Burgess, Hardaker and now Percival are way too lightweight. Even Kallum Watkins if he played in Aus would probably add another half stone.

Halfback is clearly our biggest problem. Our best hope for next year vat least is Tomkins getting fit and (wherever he plays) adding some potency out wide. Its possible Aussiegate may rear its head though, as Bennett was clearly unimpressed by the options available.

Our error rates are way too high. The Burgess twins are always liable to drop the ball cold at some stage, and Sam also. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though as I think we'll see a bigger and stronger Sam Burgess next year. He lost a lot of power trying to become a Union centre and hasn't had an off season to bulk up.

As for Bennett, he went with a squad which was largely expected. His aim is next year's WC, and he's a very smart operator. I suspect he will have given all the squad goals for next year, but for some there won't be a second chance. He will basically used this tournament as an opportunity to see what players can do, and how they react on the big stage. I sort of see where he's coming from when he talks about confidence - a lot of our mistakes come from players pushing things in a way they wouldn't in club games.

As for those suggesting Wane. Please. His up and at 'em approach failed miserably in successive WCC games (including making Roosters reserve grade halfbacks look like the best in the world). He has zero experience of winning against the best, and virtually none of coaching against them. Ditto every other SL coach. I still think getting Bennett is a massive coup - if anything for this 4N it was a year too late.

Do you think maybe you have your Bennet blinkers on, living in a city that is obsessed with him?
He had the best squad in the NRL this year but finished outside the top 4, and we seem to be worse than we were in 2014 even though you would say we probably have better players now.

Re: Team to face Australia : Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:54 am  

A few observations having watched it back:
First half we blew three decent chances. Watkins broke down the right and instead of committing the centre and passing inside (where he had more support, he just shipped it out to JM). Real lack of awareness. Then you've got Percival's bombed effort. We were still well in the game after half time and had Burgess gathered that pass by Hodgson he was in under the sticks. In that regard it was a similar story to NZ, we just lack the composure and execution when we're in good field position.

Bennett obviously wasn't happy with the combinations he had and with the World Cup in mind, you can understand why he chose to tinker. After all, he doesn't get a lot of time with the players as it is and needs to look at how all his players handle big pressure situations. At this level you don't get many chances to shine and if you're not doing what WB asks, then you should be swapped out for someone that will.

But then you've got the problem that is Super League. At the moment it just encourages mediocrity. P&R has seen the death of the reserves because teams are too scared of losing SL status. P&R should be scrapped and SL reduced to 10 teams for at least 5 years or so, to get the competition back up to standard. Also the top teams are almost encouraged to play at 60% effort for around 80% of the season. No wonder when it comes to giving 110% over three consecutive matches we're not up to it.

Re: Team to face Australia : Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:02 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

As for those suggesting Wane. Please. His up and at 'em approach failed miserably in successive WCC games (including making Roosters reserve grade halfbacks look like the best in the world). He has zero experience of winning against the best, and virtually none of coaching against them. Ditto every other SL coach. I still think getting Bennett is a massive coup - if anything for this 4N it was a year too late.

Not that I'm suggesting Wane, but did you miss him taking Brisbane to golden point in 2015? I'd hardly call that 'failing miserably' given the cap differences between the two sides and the fact we were missing Lockers on the day.