: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:38 pm  

the frustrating thing about internet forums is when people get upset when you dont agree with them, and then they resort to petty name calling.

or when they say this just wont work because you have no understanding of our local sporting market.

big cop out to me.

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:39 pm  

christopher wrote:

I'd say getting your facts totallyt muddled up is pretty poor debating!

1 point in 17 pages.

hey nobodies perfect.

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:04 pm  

Dally, Fredie...

I am a huge NSW fan, saw my first game in 87, have been to at least one game between the years of 94 - 07 in three states, I believe that it is the best brand of Rugby League that you will see. Now take YOUR blinkers off and look at this objectively. Stop using throw away examples that have no relevance to the products, markets and objectives of other similar ventures.

Why do you need an origin game to be played in England?

What do you guys beleive will be acheived by playing a game in England?

You gave the example of foreign football internationals being played in England, yet again showing how little you know about world sport and the reasons that these games are played here.

I am going to give you guys a very basic run down of why it is an insane idea to play a game of Origin in England (and more specifically London).

The ARL is the owner of the product SOO. This product essentially is the ARL's cash cow. Now why would the ARL want to devalue their premium product in order to promote Rugby League in London? At the same time why would they be so arrogant to think that they can promote RL in London better then London RL and the RFL.

What benefit would the ARL get out of playing a game in London?

As I said earlier, playing an 'exhibition' game of Origin goes against what makes the concept so unique. There would be with out a doubt many players that would be unavailable due to off-season surgery. All ready you are devaluing the origin and blues/maroons brands.

Onto the Revenue is derived from several (main) sources. Would a game in England have any benefit for the ARL in these main forms?

- TV
No extra benefit, poor viewing time for Australia.
- Tickets and Hospitality
Debateable. The amount of money spent on hosting the game in england, plus any marketing and media spend would negate any gate. Hospitality sales would be minor in a foreign market
- Sponsorship
No extra benefit, due to series and team major sponsors being mostly Australian based. No real exposure through TV and print media
- Licenced Merchandise
Unlikely to increase

You give the example of the Melbourne game. The ARL has locked in to taking games to Melbourne due to the Victorian governmets financial assistance. While I dont have the figures on hand (nor can I be bothered searching) the economic impact on the city of Melbourne was measured in the 10's of millions. The same could not be said for an Origin game in London, you are not going to get 15-20k Australians heading over to watch an exhibition match. While the ARL get a cash injection and assistance in the form of a new Stadium, no one is going to come on board to give money to the ARL to play a game over here.

OK now we've looked at (very simply) why it is not commercially viable for the ARL to take a game to England.

Now why dont you just think for a second that for a country that invented the game, has its own proffesional competition and clubs in the capital, hosts the Challenge Cup Final in the capital doesnt need SOO as its saviour in the South. The problem is a lot more deep rooted then that!

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:08 pm  

dally messenger wrote:

hindy, you stick to reading about NRL games, ill stick to attending them live.

round 3, 6 games already.

Round 4 just passed buddy. Another lie hey Dally?

I've seen more NRL live then you've had hot dinners pal. I'll be back again in the next year or two, I'm sure I can make up for it then.

For now my trips to the Stoop and planned visits this year to Knowsley Rd, Murrayfield, Perpignan and Headingly will do.

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:09 pm  

and ill repeat, im not saying the ARL should give up an actual game in the 3 game series.

im talking about an off season game so it wont mean we lost a single game.

why is it arrogant to think that playing the best RL on earth wont be attractive to london.

i mean it sure helped the melbourne storm get fans, so clearly theres a spin off.

and one way you could make sure the players take it seriously is to split any money raised from the game in a way where the winners got most of the money.

players love their coin

and ive shown many expamples of other sports or teams foreign to the local market being quite succesful.

if RU can do it, why cant RL?

why do well sell ourselves short?

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:15 pm  

dally messenger wrote:

its a silly argument to use. just argue it on its merits.

most aussies i know say nine is s**t vs fox. you said it wasnt.

I still stand by this, Nines production of games is far superior. Heck you have to put up with the ad's but I'll take that for the benefit of the game. Too many dribblers on Fox. Bit sore about this one Dally.

dally messenger wrote:

you havent been in aus for a bit.

therefore its cause you are overseas?

One would assume if you weren't in Australia, you would be in a foreign country. Good work Dally! Still doesnt disprove that I am not up to date with the NRL. But hey in my line of work, its my job to keep up with the back room dealings of all sports (and I am not a journo)

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:19 pm  

Ive just remembered about the Millenium Magic as well.

and now the Murrayfield magic.

number of local teams involved - zero

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:23 pm  

dally messenger wrote:

and ill repeat, im not saying the ARL should give up an actual game in the 3 game series.

im talking about an off season game so it wont mean we lost a single game.

I am aware of that, and I've given you examples of why a fourth game would devalue the origin concept and brand.

dally messenger wrote:

i mean it sure helped the melbourne storm get fans, so clearly theres a spin off.

Thats debateable, they have been on top for those 3 years since. I am sure there were some converted and there still maybe some more after this season

But the main benefits were the new stadium (which should convert into fans) and a cash injection from the Victorian government for the ARL.

The other point to moot is that I would doubt that Quins RL would have the ability to turn any fans from this game into fans of Quins RL. But we'll save that for our own forum.

dally messenger wrote:

and one way you could make sure the players take it seriously is to split any money raised from the game in a way where the winners got most of the money.

players love their coin

Origin is about coin? Finally I highly doubt such a venture would be profitable.

dally messenger wrote:

and ive shown many expamples of other sports or teams foreign to the local market being quite succesful.

if RU can do it, why cant RL?

why do well sell ourselves short?

Yet again you fail to see the difference between these sports, their markets, the objectives and the way they were acheived.

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:54 pm  

The only way I can see this working would be to suspend all domesic RL for a weekend, and to hold it as a double header with England vs SL based foreign players.

People say such a match wouldn't be taken seriously, but I think it would if it were played at Wembley with Origin. All players would love to take part in such an event.

But there are way too many practical ostacles involved in flying both Origin teams half way round the world and back mid-season.

: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:55 pm  

dally messenger wrote:

Ive just remembered about the Millenium Magic as well.

and now the Murrayfield magic.

number of local teams involved - zero

If anything, you've proven why this wouldn't work with this comment.

How many local fans turned up to see MM? Very few. How many were from the north to see their team play? The vast majority.

Unless you're expecting NSW and QLD fans to fly half way around the world to fill Wembley, very few locals will come. I doubt many from the north will bother travelling, especially for a trial game (as it isn't part of the series).