Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:58 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

...The only people who have been trying to blame Burgess are precisely those anti-league establishment figures, including some former players. The overwhelming opinion from reasonably unbiased people corresponds with the facts, namely that a very green Burgess did nothing wrong against Wales, was one of their better players, and England were winning and defending very well up to the point where he was substituted. Those are all facts.

He will only be seen as" a major reason" by a few strident biased trolls but they are not the writers of history.

There are two very distict groups of people in the RU world commenting on this.

First off are team mates and coaches of Sam. Not withstanding Mike Ford's rather small minded dig, all the comments made by his bath team mates suggest that he was well liked and appreciated in the dressing room. As a rule, modern players at the top level in union don't look down on their RL counterparts, they appreciate that they are hard working professionals like themselves.

The second group are RU journalists, ex players, and the people who go to RU internationals. I'm afraid most of these have a pre-1995 mentality still; they are, as Jon Wilkin succinctly put it, "dismissive of what rugby league has brought to their sport". Unfortunately they form a large part of the RU commentariat at the moment.

Eventually the journalists will be replaced by people who've grown up playing and watching RU after 1995, and the tone of journalism will become less tribal. But it will take a few years yet.

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:00 pm  

Theres a piece in the telegraph by Will Greenwood that I thought summed it up well. He basically says he thinks Sam would have made a great RU player but was let down by both his club and country. He actually states tha all the players left out had there chance and didn't make the grade and after the dust has settled have suddenly become great players in their own minds.

[PopTart]

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:04 pm  

tigertot wrote:

I agree with that, especially the bit about Bath's owner, who Ford had no doubt re-assured Sam would say. But from all I've heard, rather than read, Burgess discussed his contract extension before the WC but didn't then speak to Ford until after when he had made up his mind.

Burgess says in his interview after landing back in Oz that he spoke to Ford 4 weeks ago about wanting to go back.
There may well have been some back and forth, but Ford can't say it was a last minute change of heart.

He was playing the game with the press just like everyone else hoping it would all fall his way, but it didn't.

[PopTart]

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:09 pm  

Even though he's had some ex players having a dig, though only a few, and Ford's comment in the press after he left, and coach and Captain Ford not wanting Burgess to say goodbye to the team before he left.......I think Burgess has been nothing but a gentleman and classy in his press conferences.
He hasn't slagged anyone off on Union. He hasn't slagged the game off.

I'm glad he has come back. They wasted their opportunity. It should keep them at arms length for a while.

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:21 pm  

Lancaster has stepped down #blameBurgess

[PopTart]

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:14 pm  

In regard the Burgess - Lancaster relationship, I felt Lancaster did Burgess a disservice in a lot of ways, and that could have rebounded on him in part.

Clearly putting him in was a risk, but when he did put him in, and there was criticism after the Wales game, he needed to set up and defend him, or at least defend his decision.
He seemed to just go quiet and let Burgess take the heat.
Not leadership credentials and I'm sure in some ways led to RU losing Burgess

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:59 pm  

Did Mike Ford not have the guts to see out his contract at South Queensland crushers ?

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:02 pm  

vernon wrote:

Did Mike Ford not have the guts to see out his contract at South Queensland crushers ?

Mike Ford's lad left Leicester for Bath so he could be closer to his family. The quitter.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:06 pm  

vernon wrote:

Did Mike Ford not have the guts to see out his contract at South Queensland crushers ?

no, his knee hurt because of the hard grounds, he was straight on a plane as soon as greg mackey retired at warrington.

Re: Sam Burgess : Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:58 pm  

PopTart wrote:

In regard the Burgess - Lancaster relationship, I felt Lancaster did Burgess a disservice in a lot of ways, and that could have rebounded on him in part.

Clearly putting him in was a risk, but when he did put him in, and there was criticism after the Wales game, he needed to set up and defend him, or at least defend his decision.
He seemed to just go quiet and let Burgess take the heat.
Not leadership credentials and I'm sure in some ways led to RU losing Burgess

It was worse than going quiet.

After the Wales game he stated that he saw Burgess as an impact player off the bench rather than a starter. This was just after starting him in the previous game.
After the Australia game he said it was ridiculous to play a player in one position at club level and another at international. this was after picking him at centre.
He stated Burgess needed game time and then dropped him for the dead rubber

Lancaster just leant the way of the press in every post match interview.