: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:19 am  

Stooper wrote:

The talent will come. Atkins, Clubb, Fox, Sharp, Cudjoe & Armstrong are superb talents. But at the moment they don't come close to Inglis, Folau, Slater, Williams (David), Tate, Monaghan et al. Eventually....they will.

Ah, eventually....

Im sure people thought this in the mid 80s when we were getting pumped by Wally Lewis and co. Eventually we'll produce guys at their level of ability.

Last years World Cup showed where we are in relation to the Aussies, so I wonder how much we are closing the gap....or are the Aussies accelerating ahead faster than we are catching up?

: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:30 am  

Banger wrote:

As much we like to moan about the ‘wrestle’ over in the NRL, IMO the quick PTB in the SL is a bigger concern. The majority of attacking plays we see in the SL are based on a quick PTB, the defence not having time to set and the attacking team exploiting the weakness with broken field runs. Whereas, an NRL defensive line is usually allowed time to set, forcing the attacking team to be creative. It’s no coincidence that the likes of Saints and Leeds can still beat teams comfortably without any creativity in their halves (with long, Borrow, etc. missing), they’ve just got the quick PTB down to a tee.

Is this not a very recent development though? The Australians have been ahead of us for literally decades, but the wrestling holds and slow PTBs have only come into the game in the past few years.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Aussie game was always faster, and this was one of their biggest advantages over us

: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:46 pm  

Louie Mac played for Millwall academy and south london football clubs before greenwich, and then quins.

: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:26 pm  

Maximus Decimus wrote:

There is definitely something in both these arguments. Who is the last flair player that we have produced in any code of football or any individual sport? We always tend to produce sturdy players like Henman and Murray rather than a Nadal or Federer.

Erm, Murray has flair, whilst Nadal relies more on strength. Just because he has an exotic name, doesn't mean he's a flair player.

: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:55 pm  

an excellent talent made his debut for wigan today on the wing, shaun ainscough!

ask anyone at that game about his try! He has the potential to be the white jason robinson

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:53 am  

Aaron Ramsey of Arsenal was at Saints when he was younger...

Back to the point of big kids playing, I know of one lad who played for his local team and was bigger than most kids in that league, he was telling me that he lost enthusiasm for the game once he got picked for the an academy team because they were all a similar build and he wasnt breaking through tackles anymore, so he just gave it up, so from that, kids arent being taught how to play, theyve just been taught how to win using the biggest/fastest kids.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:34 am  

YES And I bang on about this a lot.

Franchising I believe can improve the talent situation slowly but the SL obsession with loading the bench with forwards and rotation hampers the development of the backs.

The only chance backs realistically get is if there are injuries.

Just to stay in the 17 they have to be instantly good and in defense, which comes with game time and experience - backs are more exposed and their mistakes often cost tries.

It seems to be the norm that most teams play with 3/4 props then fill the rest of the bench with a hooker/half ( again a symptom of our game that halves have to be able to play hooker) and 1 or more utility forwards who can also cover centre.

My own team saints who are often referred to as bringing through youth have produced very little in recent years in new back talent.

The last young player - who wasn't our own - who we persevered with was Gardiner and it took him a long time to develop and win over the fans.

There are at the moment 3/4 backs at saints on the verge with eastmond leading the way but they will get a lot less opportunities than lets say a young second row.

A young left winger if he makes the team has the left wing and will be expected to cover fullback and the right as a sub.

Whats more he`ll get a lot less rotation unless he having a shocker.

A young second row has at least 3 positions 11, 12 & 13 to aim for then if he`s slow and big 8 & 10 if hes quick then a centre slot.

He will get rotated throughout the game.

Thats why I think we seem to produce stacks of forwards.

For me to encourage english backs I would like to see either an extra sub added that could only replace 1-5 Or split the existing subs so that you have a maximum of 2 forward subs on the bench.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:54 am  

i think the competition we have at youth level, encourages physicality over skill

i think it would be useful to get some youth level RL played with 11, drop the two props, to encourage youngsters to get the ball flung around a bit and used to more passing moves and getting it out wide rather than bigger kids driving it up the middle

id also look at reducing the 10 metres at the ptb to 5 at youth level

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:43 pm  

Doseymarker wrote:

YES And I bang on about this a lot.


For me to encourage english backs I would like to see either an extra sub added that could only replace 1-5 Or split the existing subs so that you have a maximum of 2 forward subs on the bench.

I'd like to see us go to six subs but no interchange. Get rid of the impact players, or make sure that they can play at least sixty minutes.

Also one of the subs would have to be 21 years of age or less.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:23 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I'd like to see us go to six subs but no interchange. Get rid of the impact players, or make sure that they can play at least sixty minutes.

Also one of the subs would have to be 21 years of age or less.

Good idea, although wouldnt be good for us Feka carries us at times.