Re: Wigan make massive loss : Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:17 pm  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

How rich are Premiership and Championship football club owners compared to Super League club owners?

How many rich people would like to own a football club compared to how many would like to own a rugby league club?

That's our problem with most clubs losing lots of money.

Ive always wondered why no footballers have been interested in buying a rugby club. Likes of Wayne Rooney has been vocal as a fan of the sport. The outgoings wouldn't even register on his balance sheet. Might have a bit more free time on the future too..

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:37 am  

Lebron James wrote:

Except it would be obvious because you would disclose it as an extraordinary item. At least a decent accountant would anyway. So wigans problem is that that they don't own their own their stadium? Tell me then Mr Grant price Waterhouse, How come saints own their own and are in the same predicament?

Regards

King James

So Mr KPMG/Deloitte/EY/PWC/BDO/GT/RSM on the basis of what criteria under FRS 102 would that be an extraordinary item ? "decent" accountants know accounting standards and their application.

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:38 am  

Superleague's problem is its lack of sponsorship and the stupid decision to tie in to a long-TV deal when things have heated up in the TV rights market.

There are far less big brand names sponsoring the clubs than a decade ago, my own club is now sponsored by a local Scaffolding firm, whereas for a good decade or so we had the internationally known P&O. Same can be seen at other clubs, and it has taken a few years for the league itself to recover from the free Stobart sponsorship debacle.

On the TV rights front just as other sports are making SKY & BT have a bidding war, Union have manged to get a Channel5 to outbid ITV for their highlights show, and Facebook & Amazon moving in on the streaming market...the RFL just signed us up to SKY for years, and we can't even get the BBC to show the Super League show nationally at a time anyone wants to watch.

SKY are seeing their slowest growth in years and scared by the growth of streaming (hence the changes to the Sports packages) and even a slight hint of a solid ratings banker like RL going elsewhere would drum up a few more £.

As for Wigan specifically, obviously I am on the other side of the Pennines, but its noticeable their crowds are well down. To be fair to their Chairman he at least tries new ideas to grow his club and the game, such as going to Australia in partnership with Hull, playing a game in London a couple of years ago and promoting a 'big' fixture each year.

One issue I am hearing from fans of all clubs is the poor refereeing standards and the amount of time spent with ball out of play for video ref decisions, injuries (many of which are being faked by the players to get a breather) and 'talking to the captains' night games now gone on way past 10pm for all this nonsense. RL's selling point before was that the ball was in play far more than other sports.

And you could write a dissertation on the RFL's marketing, so i'll keep things brief! a few social media ads last minute to an audience that already follows RL and its social media pages isn't up to the job. Boxing and RU manage to turn any old event in to a 'must see'

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:33 pm  

another massive loss this afternoon

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:54 pm  

Tigerade wrote: Giants 1.05 million Salford 1.35 million Maybe you should d read this dated 21Sept 2017 before banding figures about Paragraph five might help. https://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leag ... ate/107795

Tigerade wrote: Giants 1.05 million Salford 1.35 million Maybe you should d read this dated 21Sept 2017 before banding figures about Paragraph five might help. https://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leag ... ate/107795

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:53 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Sorry but that's rubbish - you can learn a lot from the financial statements which are all lodged and freely available from Companies House, especially if the company is outside the small company disclosure regime. Accountants can't massage the figures that much - if a club is losing money year after year like Wigan tend to do that can't be massaged into recurring profits without it being obvious (e.g. Lenagan writing off loans). Likewise at Leeds the underlying position is that the company is profitable. You can get odd things going on but it's really pretty easy to spot them if you know how to read a set of accounts, moreso if you look at the same company or the same industry over and over.

The problem at Wigan almost certainly starts with them not owning their own stadium - they don't have the scope to generate all the non-gameday revenue that rival big clubs like Warrington, Saints and Leeds do which subsidise the football operation. Obviously those clubs also have the cost both capital and maintenance of creating the stadia but all things considered owning is much better than renting.

Is it really, you believe whatever you want old lad

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:05 pm  

wigsey wrote:

So Mr KPMG/Deloitte/EY/PWC/BDO/GT/RSM on the basis of what criteria under FRS 102 would that be an extraordinary item ? "decent" accountants know accounting standards and their application.

What? He was talking about Lenegahn writing off loans that I correctly stated would be disclosed as an extraordinary item so bore off you whopper. If you think a material related party write off shouldn't be disclosed in the accounts you need to go and resit your btec bookkeeping course

Regards

King James

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:01 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

What? He was talking about Lenegahn writing off loans that I correctly stated would be disclosed as an extraordinary item so bore off you whopper. If you think a material related party write off shouldn't be disclosed in the accounts you need to go and resit your btec bookkeeping course

I don't think I ever suggested they wouldn't be clearly evident to the user of the accounts? That's the whole point - whatever these owners or clubs do, ultimately any accounting treatment usually gives us a view of what's going on.

The idea that they anything nowadays would be "extraordinary" though.... if we're being picky about accounting standards extraordinary items don't in reality exist any more.

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:39 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

What? He was talking about Lenegahn writing off loans that I correctly stated would be disclosed as an extraordinary item so bore off you whopper. If you think a material related party write off shouldn't be disclosed in the accounts you need to go and resit your btec bookkeeping course

Regards

King James

I simply said it wasn't an extraordinary item. you're very touchy.

I'm a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered accountants in England and Wales by the way old bean. So toddle along with your amateur accountancy.

Re: Wigan make massive loss : Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:40 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

The idea that they anything nowadays would be "extraordinary" though.... if we're being picky about accounting standards extraordinary items don't in reality exist any more.

My point exactly.