: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:50 pm  

j_hunter_hkr wrote:

Castleford haven't been dwelling in a lower league for the past 15 years though, have they. My point is, Hull KR hasn't been an attractive place for a player to be. Now players actually WANT to play for Rovers for acheivement reasons, not just sentimental.

do they?

That isnt anyone elses problem Hull KR are in exactly the same position as everyone else, this is their 3rd year of SL, and the numbers are just embarrassing,

every SL quality player hasnt been picked up by another SL club, Hull KR just havent gone out and found them,

its clear they would rather spend money on Makali Aizue, Gene and Fisher than spend it going out and finding british talent,

Other clubs arent perfect, but the youth development at HKR has been and is almost none-existent and criticism of this is very valid and will count against them in a couple of years

Castleford have yo-yod and had to deal with two relegations, they have had to lose and rebuild twice, they have had to deal with the fall in income, and with losing players,

yet they have still managed to keep a youth set-up worth talking about, despite the fact that they have Leeds, Wakefield, Bradford Hudds within a few miles fighting for the same youngsters, HKR have only Hull

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:54 pm  

If you went back 7 or 8 years ago Rovers probably had a lot of Hull kids in the squad and where a mid table NL1 team as the best talent was being signed up by Hull. Knowing that we couldn't compete to get and keep the best 15-16 years olds we made a decision to rebuild the squad using signed players. As it happened it was a good strategy and got us to where we are today. Since promotion we have seen alot of development with our scholarship system and some good young talent signing. This season we have brought three kids into the full time training set up. Little acorns but we will see us getting better in years to come.
Judge us like for like and see where we are in 9 years when we have had as long as 90% of the SL clubs in the list.
Having said all that there is still alot of untapped talent in Hull imo and I, along with majority of HKR fans, can't wait for our developments to bear fruit and once again see HKR born and bred players starring for England.

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:55 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

do they?

That isnt anyone elses problem Hull KR are in exactly the same position as everyone else, this is their 3rd year of SL, and the numbers are just embarrassing,

every SL quality player hasnt been picked up by another SL club, Hull KR just havent gone out and found them,

its clear they would rather spend money on Makali Aizue, Gene and Fisher than spend it going out and finding british talent,

Other clubs arent perfect, but the youth development at HKR has been and is almost none-existent and criticism of this is very valid and will count against them in a couple of years

Castleford have yo-yod and had to deal with two relegations, they have had to lose and rebuild twice, they have had to deal with the fall in income, and with losing players,

yet they have still managed to keep a youth set-up worth talking about, despite the fact that they have Leeds, Wakefield, Bradford Hudds within a few miles fighting for the same youngsters, HKR have only Hull

This year we've signed Scott Wheeldon, Liam Colbon, Nick Fozzard and Ryan Esders. All English, 3 unwanted at other clubs and 1 a former Rovers academy player. We've also given Scott Spaven from our academy a full time contract and are likely to see a lot more from Kris Welham and Liam Watts.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT US TO DO!? There's no overnight fix to our poor youth setup but it's getting better, year by year.

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:03 pm  

j_hunter_hkr wrote:

WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT US TO DO!? There's no overnight fix to our poor youth setup but it's getting better, year by year.

i dont think you could expect any club to just promote a load of academy players into the first team squad if they arent upto it.

it wouldnt be fair on them and it wouldnt be fair on the paying supporters.

however, as long as there is a definite trend of bringing in players and blooding them when they are ready, i dont think anyone can complain. it certainly isnt something you can just do overnight. isnt this, afterall, the point of scrapping relegation?

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:06 pm  

RossRhino wrote:

i dont think you could expect any club to just promote a load of academy players into the first team squad if they arent upto it.

it wouldnt be fair on them and it wouldnt be fair on the paying supporters.

however, as long as there is a definite trend of bringing in players and blooding them when they are ready, i dont think anyone can complain. it certainly isnt something you can just do overnight. isnt this, afterall, the point of scrapping relegation?

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:13 pm  

j_hunter_hkr wrote:

This year we've signed Scott Wheeldon, Liam Colbon, Nick Fozzard and Ryan Esders. All English, 3 unwanted at other clubs and 1 a former Rovers academy player. We've also given Scott Spaven from our academy a full time contract and are likely to see a lot more from Kris Welham and Liam Watts.

so 3 established SL players from other clubs and a player judged not good enough for you previously is your efforts to develop youth?

WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT US TO DO!? There's no overnight fix to our poor youth setup but it's getting better, year by year.

go out and scout them, look at players, bring young british players in instead of lobbying for a change in the rules so you can keep bringing in average imports,

take the hit over the next two years, use young british talent, keep what works and lose what doesnt, give them the chance, allow them to improve in your first team, look at the amateur game, try and find a Ryan Hall like leeds did, look at the NLs peter fox was there 3 years ago, find another

rather than offering a new deal to an ageing Papuan why didnt HKR get Macnally?

why not give a shot to Beswick or Kaye?

Why cant Hull KR find a Ryan Hall who was playing for Oulton still at 18? why cant they find a Simon Worrall?

invest time and effort and money into finding young british players with the talent to make, invest time money and effort into training them to fulfil their potential, understand that it takes time to build a competitive squad, and that the Ben Fisher and Makali Aizues were never the answer, and the Stanley Gene is no longer the answer and that paying these old foreigners isnt the answer, if anything its counter productive to what you should be trying to acheive, thats what i expect

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:38 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

so 3 established SL players from other clubs and a player judged not good enough for you previously is your efforts to develop youth?



go out and scout them, look at players, bring young british players in instead of lobbying for a change in the rules so you can keep bringing in average imports,

take the hit over the next two years, use young british talent, keep what works and lose what doesnt, give them the chance, allow them to improve in your first team, look at the amateur game, try and find a Ryan Hall like leeds did, look at the NLs peter fox was there 3 years ago, find another

rather than offering a new deal to an ageing Papuan why didnt HKR get Macnally?

why not give a shot to Beswick or Kaye?

Why cant Hull KR find a Ryan Hall who was playing for Oulton still at 18? why cant they find a Simon Worrall?

invest time and effort and money into finding young british players with the talent to make, invest time money and effort into training them to fulfil their potential, understand that it takes time to build a competitive squad, and that the Ben Fisher and Makali Aizues were never the answer, and the Stanley Gene is no longer the answer and that paying these old foreigners isnt the answer, if anything its counter productive to what you should be trying to acheive, thats what i expect

We need to perform on the pitch to help with the next license application. If we "take a hit for the next 2 years" and don't make the playoffs then we can say goodbye to Super League.

In a perfect world, I'd love to see Hull KR select 17 East Hull lads every week and compete at the top. The fact is, that's not gonna happen. My prioity is Hull KR's success as a club, not how we're contributing to our international game, which is a laughing stock anyway.

I'm not sure who you support, but NOT ONE of the teams in SL are doing everything you've said above.

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:45 pm  

j_hunter_hkr wrote:

]We need to perform on the pitch to help with the next license application. If we "take a hit for the next 2 years" and don't make the playoffs then we can say goodbye to Super League.

if you dont do some youth development you can say goodbye to SL

In a perfect world, I'd love to see Hull KR select 17 East Hull lads every week and compete at the top. The fact is, that's not gonna happen. My prioity is Hull KR's success as a club, not how we're contributing to our international game, which is a laughing stock anyway.

exactly, i dont know why you feel the need to defend HKR, when its blatantly obvious they have simply chosen to focus on the same things you have, finishin mid-table, for some reason the east part of hull has decided to ignore dictionaries and everyone else and pretend this equals success

Hull KR have put short term (and relative to only them) success ahead of all other aspects, they dont care about juniors, dont care about bringing through young british players and dont care about making a contribution to the sustainability of SL, they care about finishin above Hull FC and thats pretty much it, a conscious decision was made to neglect youth development in favour of short term success with overseas players, there are no excuses for it, thats just what it is


what you fail to realise is this is exactly the same argument you have used to justify the last 3 years, and now you're using it justify the next two, either Hull KR can and will make these improvements regardless of finishing position or they have wasted a franchise place, and we would be better putting either Widnes or an expansion club in there or even dropping the 13 teams (and before you say it the same goes for quite a few clubs)

I'm not sure who you support, but NOT ONE of the teams in SL are doing everything you've said above.

really? i could list you 3 probably 4

with very good work at at least 4 others

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:48 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

go out and scout them, look at players, bring young british players in instead of lobbying for a change in the rules so you can keep bringing in average imports,

We haven't brought any average imports in this season!

take the hit over the next two years, use young british talent,

yeh great idea, finish bottom, lose our franchise for being non competitve and see our fanbase fall as fans get ticked off at watching an uncompetitve team, don't give up your day job!

rather than offering a new deal to an ageing Papuan why didnt HKR get Macnally?

Stan is one exception I am happy we made. He is a crowd pleaser and brings alot more to the club than just his (still considerable) playing ability. Now if you'd have named Lovegrove you'd have had a fair point.

why not give a shot to Beswick or Kaye?
Probably as we have a number of english youngsters in teh squad that we will be testing this season. You can only carry so many "possibles" in a squad.

Why cant Hull KR find a Ryan Hall who was playing for Oulton still at 18? why cant they find a Simon Worrall?
I am sure like all clubs we are scouting, real talent is very rare at amateur level by the time they reach 19+

invest time and effort and money into finding young british players with the talent to make, invest time money and effort into training them to fulfil their potential, understand that it takes time to build a competitive squad,

Which we have been doing now we are in a position where A) we can afford it B) we can keep kids we do find and C) we can attract the top kids with the lure of a FT career

and that the Ben Fisher and Makali Aizues were never the answer,

Nor are they at most clubs, majority of clubs are carrying "average" overseas players, sad reflection in the failure of 12 years of SL money wouldn't you say?
and the Stanley Gene is no longer the answer and that paying these old foreigners isnt the answer, if anything its counter productive to what you should be trying to acheive, thats what i expect

We have been promoted, stayed up, improved our league position and ,hopefully, will make the playoffs. Not bad for a bunch of no hope old timers! I think I'll trust our coach on if his squad selection is counter productive to us having on field success, which lets be honest is what 99% of us are interested in.

: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:54 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Hull KR have put short term (and relative to only them) success ahead of all other aspects, they dont care about juniors, dont care about bringing through young british players and dont care about making a contribution to the sustainability of SL, they care about finishin above Hull FC and thats pretty much it, a conscious decision was made to neglect youth development in favour of short term success with overseas players, there are no excuses for it, thats just what it is

Have you any idea what HKR's junior developemnt programmes have been like over the last 2 years? No? Thought not! Get a clue matey before spouting drivel. We have a good programme, we are signing some decent kids up and we are starting to see kids being brought through to the first team squad. Come back in 2-3 years and if we are still in this position then I'll join you in condeming us. Until then leave alone what you don't understand!