Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:55 am  

The international game is in a trough. A World Cup win would almost certainly be the most effective way for England to drag themselves out of it. I doubt the value of the current series will be known until next autumn but should we win then I'd regard the current series as a worthwhile venture.

The crowds reflect where we are right now. No point trying to disguise it or wish the BBC hadn't shown the series. No amount of marketing will sell the international game (or more accurately England) until we can post a creditable series win.

No doom and gloom intended, I believe this will happen. I spent yesterday evening leafing through the Rothman's Yearbook from 1976, the year I started watching the game. Back then, the average first division crowd was fractionally over 2k. Some things can change for the better.

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:57 am  

William Eve wrote:

Super League fans are even worse.

I must have imagined attendances of 54569, 73631 and 57034 at Wembley... and attendances of 50583, 46615 and 43930 at Old Trafford... all less than 10 years before Super League appeared on the scene and screwed the international game. Not a single international attendance in the UK during the Sooper Dooper League era has matched any of those above.

You mean Rugby Union scorelines have nothing at all to do with Rugby League one's surely? Oh, I forgot... that doesn't suit your agenda does it?

ThePrinter wrote:

Everything old = good, Everything new = bad....the sooner the likes of you disappear from RL the better, contrary to your expected claims that the sport NEEDS your like to tell us what is wrong. Its negative views like yours that stop people viewing before they've even watched because they hear how "rubbish" the game is from 'fans' who claim to love it. Contrary to what you like to think YOUR OPINION ISN'T IMPORTANT to the overall game, even though you'd love it to be for the sole reason that you can say "I was right all along". That you and many others think doing things 'how they use to be' is the way to go is only a sad reflection on how stuck in the past you are and how you are a glass half empty man, i feel sorry that this way of thinking will be how your entire life goes.

Yep, be gone you antiquated old sod.

This ship is sailing to a bright new world & the last thing it needs is old school whinges constantly harping back to a rose tinted era.

Just let go & leave it to the new breed.

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:38 pm  

The tourney gave England a chance to get some game time together and gave the likes of Watkins, Hill, Charnley and Hardaker some time with the England squad. It was never going to be much of a contest, with only one profesional club outside England in the northern hemisphere it was always going to be (and will continue to be) difficult for Wales and France to compete. Hopefully they'll have a larger pool of players to pick from for the world cup. We're just going to have to accept that at this point in time that France and Wales are long way competing with the top 3, but to stop playing them would be a mistake, I don't see how playing less international matches is going to improve things.

From a performance POV England's defence was structured, with good line speed and technique around the ruck. The attack was hot and miss at times but with so many players to come into the side I'm not too concerned at the moment.

As far as the selction goes I think Tomkins is the obvious selection at FB, I still have doubts about his positioning and ability to defend kicks but he's easily the best option we have at the moment. The wingers will probably be Hall and one of Charnley/Briscoe. Both have strengths and weaknesses to their game and there isn't much to choose between. I hope Broughton can improve and play himself into contention to give us more competition on the flanks.
The centres IMO will be Watkins and Reed, Watkins is easily the most complete centre we've got and if he can stay clear of injuries will be a shoe in for selection. I think Reed will be the left centre, I think Cudjoe has done alright but I'm not sure he's done enough to displace Reed.
I think the halves will be Sinfield, and Chase Widdop or Myler. Myler and Chase haven't really made the spot theirs so this is biggest selection decsion McNamara will have to make.

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:23 pm  

I think the series was good. The fact that England won is irrelevant. The margins of victory against France was less than we've been beat by Australia a few times in recent years. France will get better the more chances they have to play.

So far as England are concerned, we learned that we have better potential in the three quarters than we have had in a short while. Just concerned how they may cope defensively against Australia in particular. I think we've learned that we still don't have any half-backs (at least the way the coach seemd to be thinking). Sinfield is a great player but not a half-back to frighten the big teams. Chase and Myler remain a long way short of international level, in my humble opinion (based on their performances for England to date)I think we've learned that barring an injury crisis, Hock will not start against Oz or NZ, although I think he may be in the squad and play against the weaker opposition. I'd love it if Tomkins could play stand off with the Leeds lad at Full Back.

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:12 pm  

with graham, sam burgess, westwood, roby and crabtree to come back in alongside ellis, hock, o'loughlin and hill, i think we have the pack to match anyone. in hall, charnley and briscoe we have 3 international wingers imo, and jones bishop, riley and dixon are waiting in the wings, so were ok on the wing, the emergance of watkins is a breath of fresh air, and with atkins, yeaman and reed, we seem to be getting a little competiton for places in the centre's, and young evans at warrington can hopefully fullfil is potential and put his name in the frame. tomkins and hardaker are both capable exiting fullbacks, so that just leave's the half back's and this is where we are weak, i don't know the best halfback combination we could pick, probably because we don't have any of note, one thing's for sure though, i would rather lose with ritchie myler or danny brough playing than win with rangi chase playing.

john bateman would be my darkhorse to make the world cup squad, but the main aim is find a half back pairing, where that come's from? dont ask me.

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:23 pm  

My two penneth

Overall, this series was what it was always going to be. On the field an England win with the opportunity for McNamara to get his squad together for a decent length of time and find some confidence by getting a few wins and running in some tries (I also thought they were pretty determined in defence on Saturday for a game they were always going to win so clearly he is injecting a bit of pride in the shirt). Off the field, it was a chance to get international League in the media and make as many references to next year’s world cup as possible

In both cases, pretty much job done

On the selection front:

Full back jersey is Tomkins barring injury and despite a few defensive weakness is a real threat with the ball. Hardaker is improving quickly and is a very capable backup

Agree with many that we have the best options on the wing than we have had for years – probably since the Offiah/Robinson days. Hall is nailed on and I still prefer Briscoe to Charnley as he brings the ball away from his own 22 stronger against better defences and that’s going to be key against the big guns. Having said that, I would have no problem with Charnley in the team as he is a very good winger

For me, Watkins has sealed the right centre spot – again some defensive weaknesses to work on but if we are to win the big games, he has attacking game to turn matches. Cudjoe probably didn’t do enough to hold onto his spot with competition from Atkins and Reed and I would go with Reed for his all round game

We may as well stop debating the Sinfield role – he has just played the last three international games as captain and half back and we have also played our last international game before the World Cup starts. Like it or not, he will be the first half back on the team sheet. With Sinfield at 6, the question is who else in the halves – I thought Myler played well and didn’t deserve to be dropped for the final but clearly McNamara sees Chase as a man to add something extra to the team. I am not sure and didn’t think he has a great game on Sunday – pickig a team today, I would go with Myler but I do think that a year from now Lomax will be in with a shout as he is developing a very good all round game. Brough blows too hot and cold for me, on his day he is great but that day is not often enough

Widdop would be in the team at stand off if Sinfield were not there but I am not sure if they are suited to play together. Widdop would be in the squad no doubt

In the front row, I would go with Hill, Graham, Burgess and one other in the 17. At the moment, that is probably Mossop but Crabtree has never let anybody down in an England jersey and a year from now I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see George Burgess pushing for a full England spot if he gets some decent NRL game time as I expect. Morley should be around the squad but I don’t think he is right for the 17 now

Can’t look past Roby for the hooking role and I would have Burrow on the bench over McIlorum

Ellis and Westwood for the second row – Hock can be devastating on his day but (like McIlorum) he is liable to give away too many stupid penalties. Perhaps the same can be said for Westwood but I think he adds more to the team than the other two. I thought that Jones-Buchanan was very good this series but he lacks size to be effective against Australia and New Zealand, same for Jon Wilkin and Liam Farrell

Once again, O’Loughlin has played well in an England shirt and with Sinfield in the halves he is a lock in for loose forward

Ablett gets some bad press on these boards but his versatility could warrant a bench spot (another option could be Widdop)

So, I would go for

Tomkins
Briscoe (Charnley)
Watkins
Reed
Hall
Sinfield
Myler (Lomax)
Graham
Roby
S. Burgess
Westwood
Ellis
O’Loughlin

Hill
G. Burgess
Burrow
Ablett/Widdop


And finally... a successful World Cup with an England win would be the best thing to happen to our sport for the last 40 years and do wonders for the profile of the sport. Any RL administrator or fan, regardless of club or political bias, should do everything they can to make this happen

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:45 pm  

Dunbar wrote:

My two penneth

Overall, this series was what it was always going to be. On the field an England win with the opportunity for McNamara to get his squad together for a decent length of time and find some confidence by getting a few wins and running in some tries (I also thought they were pretty determined in defence on Saturday for a game they were always going to win so clearly he is injecting a bit of pride in the shirt). Off the field, it was a chance to get international League in the media and make as many references to next year’s world cup as possible

In both cases, pretty much job done

On the selection front:

Full back jersey is Tomkins barring injury and despite a few defensive weakness is a real threat with the ball. Hardaker is improving quickly and is a very capable backup

Agree with many that we have the best options on the wing than we have had for years – probably since the Offiah/Robinson days. Hall is nailed on and I still prefer Briscoe to Charnley as he brings the ball away from his own 22 stronger against better defences and that’s going to be key against the big guns. Having said that, I would have no problem with Charnley in the team as he is a very good winger

For me, Watkins has sealed the right centre spot – again some defensive weaknesses to work on but if we are to win the big games, he has attacking game to turn matches. Cudjoe probably didn’t do enough to hold onto his spot with competition from Atkins and Reed and I would go with Reed for his all round game

We may as well stop debating the Sinfield role – he has just played the last three international games as captain and half back and we have also played our last international game before the World Cup starts. Like it or not, he will be the first half back on the team sheet. With Sinfield at 6, the question is who else in the halves – I thought Myler played well and didn’t deserve to be dropped for the final but clearly McNamara sees Chase as a man to add something extra to the team. I am not sure and didn’t think he has a great game on Sunday – pickig a team today, I would go with Myler but I do think that a year from now Lomax will be in with a shout as he is developing a very good all round game. Brough blows too hot and cold for me, on his day he is great but that day is not often enough

Widdop would be in the team at stand off if Sinfield were not there but I am not sure if they are suited to play together. Widdop would be in the squad no doubt

In the front row, I would go with Hill, Graham, Burgess and one other in the 17. At the moment, that is probably Mossop but Crabtree has never let anybody down in an England jersey and a year from now I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see George Burgess pushing for a full England spot if he gets some decent NRL game time as I expect. Morley should be around the squad but I don’t think he is right for the 17 now

Can’t look past Roby for the hooking role and I would have Burrow on the bench over McIlorum

Ellis and Westwood for the second row – Hock can be devastating on his day but (like McIlorum) he is liable to give away too many stupid penalties. Perhaps the same can be said for Westwood but I think he adds more to the team than the other two. I thought that Jones-Buchanan was very good this series but he lacks size to be effective against Australia and New Zealand, same for Jon Wilkin and Liam Farrell

Once again, O’Loughlin has played well in an England shirt and with Sinfield in the halves he is a lock in for loose forward

Ablett gets some bad press on these boards but his versatility could warrant a bench spot (another option could be Widdop)

So, I would go for

Tomkins
Briscoe (Charnley)
Watkins
Reed
Hall
Sinfield
Myler (Lomax)
Graham
Roby
S. Burgess
Westwood
Ellis
O’Loughlin

Hill
G. Burgess
Burrow
Ablett/Widdop


And finally... a successful World Cup with an England win would be the best thing to happen to our sport for the last 40 years and do wonders for the profile of the sport. Any RL administrator or fan, regardless of club or political bias, should do everything they can to make this happen

Pretty much agree with all of that word for word. Really frustrating regarding the half back role. I believe we have an international 6 in Widdop, but Mcnamara seems to have decided Sinfield is to have that shirt which weakens our attacking threat IMHO.

I've said it all along, Sinfield should be in the squad, doing the organsing and kicking, but from 13. Don't buy the argument he's not big enough, he's one of the best defenders in the game.

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:25 pm  

Sinfield plays 7 and more to the right (whatever is on his back), Widdop plays 6 and is on the left. I'm liable to change my mind all the time but that seems like the best combo for me atm.

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:57 pm  

Madderzahatter wrote:

God i'm sick of people whinging and moaning about this series. The majority of northern hemisphere international rugby union is a joke (teams are average at best) but that didn't stop huge crowds watching all those beatings dished out over the weekend.

And, McNamara's going to be in charge for the World cup so we all better get used to it and just get behind the team...

NO IT IS NOT - YOU ARE WRONG

Re: Your Summary Of The Autumn Internationals? : Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:06 pm  

Budgiezilla wrote:

NO IT IS NOT - YOU ARE WRONG

The last 6 nations was gash.