Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:14 am  

Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo wrote:

Don't remember Catalans busting a gut in the game at Wigan. Leeds on the other hand had a tough game against Wakefield who were the form team at the time. Leeds then also had to travel to the South of France and back before facing Wigan. Not saying the system is perfect but lets not try and belittle Leeds' achievement.

You're right, which is why I said I wasn't saying Leeds' path was easy, but if Leeds and Catalans had got to pick their fixture between Wigan away or Wakefield at home, who would they have picked?

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:26 am  

Peter Kingsley wrote:

The top 8 is unlikely to be altered because it means more games and more money. Who do you think pushed for that to happen? Sky, they control the game becase they pump all the money in.

Maybe the existing top 8 can be tweaked so it's weighted more in favour of the top 2, if that will appease people.

But those going on about first past the post and getting rid of the playoffs - Firstly, are you crazy? The grand final is a fantastic, money spinning showpiece event, i look forward to 'grand final day' every year. It gives the game great coverage and exposure.

All the big names turn up or tune in, the rooneys the ferdinands, they love it, and sing it's praises to their millions of followers.

Also, the majority of the sports history has seen the champions decided by playoffs. Learn your rugby league history, first past the post has been the exception not the rule. Pretty much all major sports apart from football decide champions with some form of playoff. So stop going on like rugby league is some wierd outcast sport doing something ridiculous.

Does anyone remember what first past the post was like? After about a quarter, the season would be over for all but 6 teams (most likely 3 with realistic chance of top spot, and 3 battling bottom place), or should i change that to 3 with no relegation?

So we'd still have a bunch of nothing games. The grass isn't always greener. The current system gives the greatest incentive to the highest % of teams.

In conclusion, people are living in cloud cuckoo land. The best thing that can happen is the top 8 system is tweaked so that it's weighted better in favour of the highest placed teams. But it's not going away because of the extra games and thus extra money it generates.

And doing away with the grand final to decide champions altogether? The grand final is fantastic, it is well and truly here to stay.

That's certainly all I'd ask for. I enjoy the playoffs (though admittedly I'd enjoy them more if every round was a knockout) and wouldn't want to see a return of FPTP for the reasons you've stated. My main gripe is that finishing lower down the top 8 should make your route to the final increasingly difficult, making teams want to avoid doing so at all costs; in contrast finishing higher up should give you a very easy route to the final, making for an exciting race for the top. We don't have that at the moment and nobody really minds too much as long as they finish in the top 8, and most of those places are all but guaranteed, hence why people are questioning the weekly rounds.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:30 am  

Odem wrote:

I am amazed that this Leeds team has done this two years running, nut for me it is a sign that it needs changing.

It's merely a sign that the teams who have finished top the past two years haven't had the qualities required of a champion team.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:32 am  

Beverley red wrote:

Same post every year! the same sad people, the same drivel spouted. We have play offs to decide the champions you have had 15 years to get used to it. Wigan did not finish top Leeds did as they won last night while 12 teams were already on their hollidays. The top 4 have all the advantage they get a second go if they lose or a week off if they win. thats what the effort in the 27 regular rounds are about. 5 to 8 have it hard all the way & have to win every game away from home. If not for the play offs my team season would have been over months ago & would you rob the Wakefield fans the excitement of the last month?
Another point, the greatest sports competition's on earth use regular games & play offs, NFL, European Champions league, World cup & European cup soccer. The other thing to realise is that if we ever spread the game we can add teams without increasing on the 27 rounds & the new people we would attract wont care how we used to run the game for a few short years in our history.
Almost forgot, well done Leeds & Warrington a great game I enjoyed every second of it & I am sorry I could not be there as I love League at every level & will watch every game I can (reguardless of my teams position or form)

Leeds (5th) got to play Wakefield (8th) at home, whilst Catalans (4th) played Wigan (1st) away. If Leeds did have it hard all the way I wouldn't have a single complaint.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:44 am  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

Leeds (5th) got to play Wakefield (8th) at home, whilst Catalans (4th) played Wigan (1st) away. If Leeds did have it hard all the way I wouldn't have a single complaint.

The team finishing 4th has a second go. But moreover they have the prospect of a week off if they win. Catalans didn't display champion qualities in that game against Wigan (compared to, say, the team Wigan played last time they were involved in that very 1st vs 4th play off tie). Catalans didn't deserve to win and didn't deserve to be champions based on their play off performances - but that is not to say they didn't have a much easier opportunity with the prospect of one away game followed by one home game, the route Leeds followed in 2010.

Because the French failed to take advantage of that does not suddenly make this Wigan claim that 5th is easier than 4th valid, it just shows that play off systems weed out teams who aren't worthy of the title.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:50 am  

TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:

That's certainly all I'd ask for. I enjoy the playoffs (though admittedly I'd enjoy them more if every round was a knockout) and wouldn't want to see a return of FPTP for the reasons you've stated. My main gripe is that finishing lower down the top 8 should make your route to the final increasingly difficult, making teams want to avoid doing so at all costs; in contrast finishing higher up should give you a very easy route to the final, making for an exciting race for the top. We don't have that at the moment and nobody really minds too much as long as they finish in the top 8, and most of those places are all but guaranteed, hence why people are questioning the weekly rounds.

Wigan had a Week off, and faced a Leeds side which had just come back from a bruising encounter in the south of france. To be crowned champions Leeds had to beat 8th, 4th, 1st and 2nd. For Wigan to win it they would have only needed too 4th, 5th and 2nd. Realistically, how much more of an advantage do they want?

If anything would remove the integrity of the competition it would be to make the play-offs a procession, with advantages so weighted in the favour of the top team it becomes pointless playing, The main thrust of the Wigan argument is that the play-offs arent 'fair' or 'rewarding' for the teams finishing top 2, because by the time Leeds met Wigan, Leeds werent so busted up by other teams that is was a walkover for Wigan and they had to face a Leeds team who were better than them.

If Wigan cant beat a Leeds side, when they have home advantage, when Leeds were missing Danny Mcguire, when Leeds were coming off the back of a game away in france, when Wigan were coming off a week off, when Leeds had already played in the 3 more matches that year than Wigan, a WCC, a CC final, and an away play off in france, because Wigan didnt have 'enough of an advantage' then they arent a champion side.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:34 pm  

I think that Leeds achievment makes them truly the Champions. To play every game on a win or go home scenario, and, after the Wakefield game, away from home and then to beat the overwhelming favourites, i.e. Wigan and Warrington, one on their home ground and one in the final is an amazing feat. They deserve the tag of champions.

Those who claim they coasted through the regular season sound deluded. I am sure they would have preferred to finish top and have all the home games and pick your own opponent choices that go with that. Do anyone seriously think they coasted in the regular
season so they could go to Catalans and Wigan and have an extra game against Wakefield when they could have played at Headingley and taken all the income that goes with that, bar receipts etc, plus the home field advantage. The odds of them making the final via the route that they did must have been astronomical. How can anyone think they went that route on purpose.?

Playoffs are the norm in most top sports and have been in RL for most of our history. If some team was to win our championship from 8th place, it would be an extraordinary achievment, to be lauded not disparaged. These feats are rare and will continue to be so. The vast majority of the time the winner will come from the top four if not the top two.

This season has been extraordinary in that Sheffield did the same thing as Leeds but the usual order prevailed in CC1 where Doncaster did the double.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:03 pm  

Seth wrote:

RL is a minority sport, we need everything the playoffs bring, certain elements may need tweaking and some lessons learnt, I'm not saying it doesn't. My point is the negativity towards the sport by it's own fans on here far outweighs the positive, my point is that even an inferior RL match to last night still displays more athleticism, sportsmanship and determination than the countries national sport.

If its Catalan v Hudds one year, great itll mean they've earnt it and that the depth of the competition is greater.

I'm pretty sure that you'll find any forum in any subject has more negative posts than positives, for the simple reason that you're more inclined to post when you have a view about something you don't like or you want to see changed. Just like I'm sure the BBC gets more letters of complaint than it gets letters saying " that show was great ". This forum will always have more 'whinges' than it has cheerleading, but that doesn't mean the game or its fans are obsessed with running it down. I think we suffer from poor leadership, but I'd still defend the sport the Nth degree against those who'd say Union or whatever was better. In fact, the people who would claim that us whingers are the pessimists are the ones who I think are the REAL pessimists, because they have an attitude of "we're a small sport, why bother trying to be better?" when in fact we can be so much bigger and better. Nobody will ever convince me that Nigel Wood is the man to take RL close the maximum of what is realistically acheivable with great leadership.

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:15 pm  

Best way to stop all this moaning about how fair or unfair the playoff system is to scrap it . Let the team that finishes in top spot be crowned champions .
Then let's have an all included end of season knock-out tournament .
Give the champions and second placed team ( or CC winners ? ) a bye into the second week .
Every round fixtures to be drawn randomly out of a bag .
Week one . 12 teams in the bag = 6 games
Week two . 1st and 2nd ( or CC winners ? ) go in the bag with winners from week one . 8 teams = 4 games .
Week three . Winners from week two in the bag . 4 teams = 2 games
Week four is the final contested by winners from week three .

All games to be decided on the day . In the event of any games being level on 80 mins play continues ( no hooter ) until the next score .

Simples .

Now just have to decide what to call the winners of this tournament .

Re: What does Leeds' victory mean for the regular season? : Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:21 pm  

I think the team finishing top are the League Champions and the team winning at Old Trafford are the Grand Final winners.

The League season provides you with an opportunity to finish in the top 8 and entry into the most exclusive Cup competition in Rugby League but it should not determine who is recognised as League Champions.