Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 6:58 am  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

The promotion and relegation system does not work. Championship clubs cannot make it to Super League against even a weak Super League team with a much higher salary cap.

Major corporate sponsors are not interested in funding a sport which has a tiny geographical profile, in this case along the M62 corridor.

The only way rugby league can become popular and get funds at the level of the NRL at least, is to drop P & R and institute franchising with a truly national and an international perspective.

The franchises should be awarded to clubs which have a 10,000 seater minimum stadium and an active junior competition. The best clubs to award franchises to, from the perspective of TV deals and national and international sponorship are:

Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Leeds
Bradford
Hull FC
Calder United

London
Newcastle
Sheffield

Catalans
Toulouse

Toronto
Montreal

The competition should be renamed Atlantic Super League.

The Canadian teams will have to be stocked with Antipodean and English players at the beginning (as is now planned). Within ten years they should have a majority Canadian player roster thanks to development of Canadian juniors, as now exists with French players at Catalans, and should also exist with French players at Toulouse. The same methods should be used with new USA team ventures.

Future franchise additions to the initially 14 team competition should come from southern England, Wales, France, and the USA. If there is a sufficient player pool there should be no fear of increasing the number of teams over time up to 20, or even 24. If the number was to be 20 I would be looking at having one more team from Wales (Cardiff), one more from southern England, two more from France, and two more from USA. If the number was to increase to 24 then I would look at 4 more teams from the USA.

The days of parochialism are over. The game is atrophying in poverty under the Nigel Wood "P & R on the M62" administration.

Only a truly national and international franchise system will attract big corporate sponsors and get the lucrative TV deals that are enjoyed by rugby league in Australia, and by other sports in Europe and North America.

Stopped reading after Canadian players should play for the Canadian teams. Isn't that what Catalans were supposed to be doing? I'm all for expansion, but in the right way.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 7:22 am  

Faithful One wrote:

Stopped reading after Canadian players should play for the Canadian teams. Isn't that what Catalans were supposed to be doing? I'm all for expansion, but in the right way.

Why? They don't in other major sports.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 8:20 am  

tigertot wrote:

Why? They don't in other major sports.

Don't what? Expand? Or my point about Catalans?

How do you think football became the global phenomenon that it is if someone somrwhere didn't take the game elsewhere? Football is expanding, just in a slightly different way, trying to promote womens football across the country. There's talk today of a shake up in the men's game here as well, introducing a new league.

There has been a professional rugby union league kicking off last month in the USA. If that takes off, it will increase the global interest of rugby union even further ahead of league.

Tennis and Formula 1 take their products around the world, adding new destinations each year. Cricket are promoting the T20 leagues and cups more than ever before.

That's just a few off the top of my head...

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 9:17 am  

You misunderstand. My point was that it is not always necessary to have a team full of home-grown (locally or nationally) players to be successful. Man City, for instance, regularly only have one British player in their team. When they played Real Madrid recently Madrid had as many British players in their starting 11. Expanding sport nowadays is all about hype. Kids want to be associated with famous global brands, often irrespective of the quality of the offering or an understanding of the sport. See F1, union or T20 cricket. RL is the greatest sport on the planet but I can never see a time when it has the money behind it or access to the media to realise that potential. Also the Emperor's New Clothes approach just isn't our style (thankfully). Richard Lewis is an excellent leader - he was chair of the RFL & Sport England but it could be argued made less progress than the current bunch.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 9:24 am  

Budgiezilla wrote:

Yeah, with loads of imports playing for them GET REAL ! English clubs take fans to Catalans, but they can't be arsed vice/versa ! "The game has to expand" why exactly ???

Are you for real ?

If the game expands further away from the heartlands, in France, Canada, London, Wales, of course fewer away fans will travel from these places to Yorkshire and Lancashire to watch their team play, it's just not possible.
It's not too bad making a once a season trip to France or "a big day out" in London once a year but, nobody can expect Catalan fans to travel to each and every game in England, it isn't going to happen and it's utterly wrong to deride their fans for not travelling.
The question is whether the game should include these clubs, primarily to try and help grow the game on the bigger stage.

There are 2 simple choices.

Keep the game in the North of England and constantly complain that we cant secure sponsorship and advertising etc or, try and raise the profile of the game and increase interest outside of the "heartlands".

Or

Expand into new areas and help grow the game globally

This will mean sacrificing something in terms of the domestic game, at least in the short term but, to move the game forward, surely it's worth it ?

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 9:30 am  

tigertot wrote:

You misunderstand. My point was that it is not always necessary to have a team full of home-grown (locally or nationally) players to be successful. Man City, for instance, regularly only have one British player in their team. When they played Real Madrid recently Madrid had as many British players in their starting 11. Expanding sport nowadays is all about hype. Kids want to be associated with famous global brands, often irrespective of the quality of the offering or an understanding of the sport. See F1, union or T20 cricket. RL is the greatest sport on the planet but I can never see a time when it has the money behind it or access to the media to realise that potential. Also the Emperor's New Clothes approach just isn't our style (thankfully). Richard Lewis is an excellent leader - he was chair of the RFL & Sport England but it could be argued made less progress than the current bunch.

Ah I see what you mean now, apologies. My point with regards to Catalans was aimed at Jeans audacity to make a statement that a Canadian club in 10 years time would be made up of Canadian players, just like Catalans were allegedly going to be.

Don't think it's wrong at all that we have overseas players, just needs to be regulated to encourage local participation and given young kids a dream of playing for their home club IMO. The quota is a good rule in my opinion and stops teams buying a load of Aussies.

Didn't the FA bring in some regs with regards to homegrown players recently?

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 11:00 am  

tenerifeRhino wrote:

P+r does not work in RL.

We just seem to love the romance of some of the village clubs being able to make it into SL.

Thank God we don't have one up one down like so many want. We could lose 200k a year spectators that frequent the Rhinos to be replaced by Broncos who play on a park field or a suburb of Wigan.

That "suburb of Wigan" you speak of must be Leigh.
The same Leigh that average attendance almost the same per season & often sometimes far better in a given round than both Salford & Wakefield Trinity Schoolgirls.
The same Leigh that pro rata of it's population is far better supported than Leeds Rhinos.
The same Leigh who's away fans travel in bigger numbers than Salford & Wakefield do in Super Dooper League
The same Leigh that does it week in week out with little to no away support to boost our home attendances.

Tell you what ....
let's go back to franchise & put London straight back in .....
their 403 hard-core fans will surely bring huge benefits to other SL Clubs when their army descends en mass.

Or let's give that giant of a Club Wakefield 30 more years of dreary apathetic RL in SL.

Banish both Bradford *who have a better following than half of SL* & Halifax who would no doubt be better supported than Salford & Wakey to the lower reaches of the RL echelon.

Mind you, you would be saying what you did when it is most definitely Twitchy Bum Time for your lot.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 11:53 am  

kobashi wrote:

Wow!!

Koukash has become a M62 only supporter.

I make silly statements.

FTFY.
So what if Catalan don't bring fans. The game has to expand.. Man is just bitter that Catalan are a success.

Consider that he & many others issues with Catalan or Toulouse Olympique or London or Toronto Wolfpack et al might not be about success but more about the inequalities as doled out by the RFL.


Never forget that Les Catalans were parachuted directly into SL & at the expense of one or more established RL Clubs were gifted 3 years SL gratis with exemption from relegation, then a further 3 years exemption gifted by the RFL by way of a guaranteed Franchise, this guaranteed Franchise a cynic might say was planned all along by the RFL as part of the RFL's 6 year plan to establish Catalan in SL.

Add to the above the discrepancies in overseas quotas enjoyed by the French & the Welsh & London & you might start to get the picture.

Yes, Catalan Dragons are a success story, but a story founded on inequality where other Clubs have suffered as a result.

Don't get me wrong, now that they are here & established they are an asset to RL & SL & I would also welcome London back on their own merit & if Londoners or at least Southerners wanted them *which they clearly don't*.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 12:00 pm  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

That "suburb of Wigan" you speak of must be Leigh.
The same Leigh that average attendance almost the same per season & often sometimes far better in a given round than both Salford & Wakefield Trinity Schoolgirls.
The same Leigh that pro rata of it's population is far better supported than Leeds Rhinos.
The same Leigh who's away fans travel in bigger numbers than Salford & Wakefield do in Super Dooper League
The same Leigh that does it week in week out with little to no away support to boost our home attendances.

Tell you what ....

Let's go back to franchise & put London straight back in .....
their 403 hard-core fans will surely bring huge benefits to other SL Clubs when their army descends en mass.

Or let's give that giant of a Club Wakefield 30 more years of dreary apathetic RL in SL.

Banish both Bradford *who have a better following than half of SL* & Halifax who would no doubt be better supported than Salford & Wakey to the lower reaches of the RL echelon.

Mind you, you would be saying what you did when it is most definitely Twitchy Bum Time for your lot.

To a certain extent I agree with what you're saying but do we really need 2 extra Yorkshire teams in SL?

We need to expand the game and to do that we need to promote it further afield. The only way to do that is with cold hard cash to pay for marketing. We need someone to market the hell out of it like they have the darts. Look at how that sport has come from nowhere to where it is now.

I wouldn't want HKR to lose their place in SL but for the good of the game they along with a few others may have to.

The RFL shouldn't have shared the new TV money out the way they did. They should have taken a percentage and used it purely to market the game. I bet their current marketing budget wouldn't even cover Terry Campese's wages.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 12:17 pm  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

That "suburb of Wigan" you speak of must be Leigh.
The same Leigh that average attendance almost the same per season & often sometimes far better in a given round than both Salford & Wakefield Trinity Schoolgirls.
The same Leigh that pro rata of it's population is far better supported than Leeds Rhinos.
The same Leigh who's away fans travel in bigger numbers than Salford & Wakefield do in Super Dooper League
The same Leigh that does it week in week out with little to no away support to boost our home attendances.

Tell you what ....

Let's go back to franchise & put London straight back in .....
their 403 hard-core fans will surely bring huge benefits to other SL Clubs when their army descends en mass.

Or let's give that giant of a Club Wakefield 30 more years of dreary apathetic RL in SL.

Banish both Bradford *who have a better following than half of SL* & Halifax who would no doubt be better supported than Salford & Wakey to the lower reaches of the RL echelon.

Mind you, you would be saying what you did when it is most definitely Twitchy Bum Time for your lot.

Brilliant post, you may want to go back and see just how well Leigh were supported last time they were in the top flight


The main problem that you have, is that you have all of the arrogance of a big club but, you are just a small town on the outskirts of Wigan and using the same logic that you are trying to apply to Wakefield and Salford, Leigh would not offer anything to SL either.

You might want to see just how few of your fans were interested last time you played in the big league and while you are at it take a peek at Halifax's crowd numbers (they were less then yours).
Of all the clubs in the Championship, only Bradford can generate decent crowds, when things are going well. None of the rest would offer any improvement on what we currently have.