Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 12:20 pm  

[quote="wrencat1873"]Brilliant post, you may want to go back and see just how well Leigh were supported last time they were in the top flight


The main problem that you have, is that you have all of the arrogance of a big club but, you are just a small town on the outskirts of Wigan and using the same logic that you are trying to apply to Wakefield and Salford, Leigh would not offer anything to SL either.

You might want to see just how few of your fans were interested last time you played in the big league and while you are at it take a peek at Halifax's crowd numbers (they were less then yours).
Of all the clubs in the Championship, only Bradford can generate decent crowds, when things are going well. None of the rest would offer any improvement on what we currently have.

The game needs to decide exactly where it wants to be in 5 or 10 years time and then work on how to achieve it's aim.

Sadly, we will have this same debate in 10 years and bemoan the fact that nothing has happened.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 12:25 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

... We need someone to market the hell out of it like they have the darts. Look at how that sport has come from nowhere to where it is now.

Where is it?

As someone who loves watching the darts, I think I know what you think you mean, but in fact, they have done and are doing exactly what most on here seem to be railing against.

Darts has to make any money it does from stuff like broadcasters and sponsors. That is because they have no crowds to speak of. Even in a world championship, at the Lakeside, the capacity is maybe 1,000. Now, bear in mind that is the TOTAL people watching live darts that day. As the games are only in one venue.

The average UK wage is £26,500. There are hardly more than 50 darts players IN THE WORLD earning (gross) appreciably more than that.

This is why darts has tried to go international, and get games in places where frankly there is no darts at all, or not as we know it. Their international circuit is huge, but most of those places it is very much a novelty.

And, for what they are trying to do, it works. If selling a fair few seats to a few hundred bums, and getting some airtime on limited TV is the criterion.

Basically there is the darting international circuit where a fairly tidy income is available to the elite, and then there is ... nothing. Amateur / club darts. I'm struggling to see any sensible comparison for us.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 1:50 pm  

LifeLongHKRFan wrote:

To a certain extent I agree with what you're saying but do we really need 2 extra Yorkshire teams in SL?

No, not necessarily

We need to expand the game and to do that we need to promote it further afield.

True But in a far better structured manner.

I wouldn't want HKR to lose their place in SL

Neither would I

Here's how I would restructure if going down the licensing route.

SL1 + SL2, 2x Leagues of 10 with no real cache in being in 1 over 2.

Mix them up a bit so something like

SL 1

Catalan
Leeds
Bradford *mandatory requirement for New Stadia*
Halifax
Warrington
Widnes
Wakefield *mandatory requirement for New Stadia*
Castleford *mandatory requirement for New Stadia*
Toronto
Vancouver/Any given Canadian Club.

SL 2

Wigan
St Helens
Salford
Leigh
Toulouse Olympique
2nd *French* Club
London *insert current name as applicable*
Cardiff
Hull FC
Hull KR

Endon of season - No P&R *not required*

Top 4 from SL1 & SL2 play 2x semi finals & 1 Final *based on League Position in their own Group then ....

SL1 Champions v SL2 Champions for the title of *& for a laugh* let's call it Grande Campione

Bottom 6 of both SL1 & SL2 play off for a minor Comp prize.

Top 4 of both SL 1 & SL 2 get a monetary award on a sliding scale based on placings with Grande Campione receiving a further sum for being good eggs.

All monetary awards are 'bound' solely to be spent on Academy & Affiliate Clubs
*for Leigh these would be Leigh Miners & Leigh East*
*for Wigan Ince Rose Bridge etc*

Affiliate Clubs to become feeders to Parent Clubs *just as they do in Oz*.

An arbitrary/nominal/moderate increase to Salary Cap in SL 1 & 2 up to £2m increasing to £2.4m over 5 year period, (£2m year 1 then + £100k p/a over next 4).

Significant increase to Salary Cap for new Championship member Clubs *with conditions* & new expansion Clubs to be blooded via Championship & Championship 1.

Edit.

Room for Cumbrian RL Club & Featherstone or Batley + Sheffield + 1 A.N.Other RL Club to join at later date following restructuring & development at a later juncture if sustainable.

Let's see who's heads explode !!!

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 2:39 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Where is it?

As someone who loves watching the darts, I think I know what you think you mean, but in fact, they have done and are doing exactly what most on here seem to be railing against.

Darts has to make any money it does from stuff like broadcasters and sponsors. That is because they have no crowds to speak of. Even in a world championship, at the Lakeside, the capacity is maybe 1,000. Now, bear in mind that is the TOTAL people watching live darts that day. As the games are only in one venue.

The average UK wage is £26,500. There are hardly more than 50 darts players IN THE WORLD earning (gross) appreciably more than that.

This is why darts has tried to go international, and get games in places where frankly there is no darts at all, or not as we know it. Their international circuit is huge, but most of those places it is very much a novelty.

And, for what they are trying to do, it works. If selling a fair few seats to a few hundred bums, and getting some airtime on limited TV is the criterion.

Basically there is the darting international circuit where a fairly tidy income is available to the elite, and then there is ... nothing. Amateur / club darts. I'm struggling to see any sensible comparison for us.

The only exposure Darts had was the yearly BDO world championship. Now they get very healthy crowds on a weekly basis for premier league Darts. It takes the SS1 primetime slot on a Thursday while RL gets SS3 or 4 so they must be doing something right.

I see a lot to compare between the sports. Only their elite players get press and tv coverage just like our elite players. However their elite players get prime time TV slots on a weekly basis and a generally good coverage in the press. Our elite players get a couple of games a week on whichever channel Sky can be bothered to put it on and virtually no press outside the M62 corridor.

It is through their marketing that Phil the Power Taylor and MVG are names known outside their sport. Until recently, one of the best players of the SL era (Kevin Sinfield) wasn't hardly known to anyone outside RL

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 4:59 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Where is it?

As someone who loves watching the darts, I think I know what you think you mean, but in fact, they have done and are doing exactly what most on here seem to be railing against.

Darts has to make any money it does from stuff like broadcasters and sponsors. That is because they have no crowds to speak of. Even in a world championship, at the Lakeside, the capacity is maybe 1,000. Now, bear in mind that is the TOTAL people watching live darts that day. As the games are only in one venue.

The average UK wage is £26,500. There are hardly more than 50 darts players IN THE WORLD earning (gross) appreciably more than that.

This is why darts has tried to go international, and get games in places where frankly there is no darts at all, or not as we know it. Their international circuit is huge, but most of those places it is very much a novelty.

And, for what they are trying to do, it works. If selling a fair few seats to a few hundred bums, and getting some airtime on limited TV is the criterion.

Basically there is the darting international circuit where a fairly tidy income is available to the elite, and then there is ... nothing. Amateur / club darts. I'm struggling to see any sensible comparison for us.

er so its pretty clear you are talking about the BDO which is an utter mess when it comes to making money.

bit strange that you basically ignored the PDC. anyone would think the PDC doesnt exist from reading this post.

you and I both know that the PDC is doing remarkably well, huge crowds, lots of sponsors, multiple TV contracts and players getting paid great money.

premier league crowds are off the charts.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 6:22 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Brilliant post, you may want to go back and see just how well Leigh were supported last time they were in the top flight


The main problem that you have, is that you have all of the arrogance of a big club but, you are just a small town on the outskirts of Wigan and using the same logic that you are trying to apply to Wakefield and Salford, Leigh would not offer anything to SL either.

You might want to see just how few of your fans were interested last time you played in the big league and while you are at it take a peek at Halifax's crowd numbers (they were less then yours).
Of all the clubs in the Championship, only Bradford can generate decent crowds, when things are going well. None of the rest would offer any improvement on what we currently have.

This is Virtual Terrace you know, it's no place for facts.

Ftr Last time Leigh were in Supper Dooper League they averaged 4637 and Halifax averaged 2977, the year before 4152.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Fri May 20, 2016 7:32 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Brilliant post, you may want to go back and see just how well Leigh were supported last time they were in the top flight


The main problem that you have, is that you have all of the arrogance of a big club but, you are just a small town on the outskirts of Wigan and using the same logic that you are trying to apply to Wakefield and Salford, Leigh would not offer anything to SL either.

You might want to see just how few of your fans were interested last time you played in the big league and while you are at it take a peek at Halifax's crowd numbers (they were less then yours).
Of all the clubs in the Championship, only Bradford can generate decent crowds, when things are going well. None of the rest would offer any improvement on what we currently have.

This is priceless....coming from a Wakefield Wildcats fan. Reckon you brought about 200 fans (max) to the play off game at Leigh last season.....you must be so proud !
What do Wakefield bring to Sooper League, that Leigh couldn't ?? Answers on a postcard please...... (sorry Wildthing, but he asked for it)

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Sat May 21, 2016 7:40 am  

Budgiezilla wrote:

This is priceless....coming from a Wakefield Wildcats fan. Reckon you brought about 200 fans (max) to the play off game at Leigh last season.....you must be so proud !
What do Wakefield bring to Sooper League, that Leigh couldn't ?? Answers on a postcard please...... (sorry Wildthing, but he asked for it)

You clearly cant count (or choose not to).

Trinity just about filled the stand behind the post's, with more fans in the main stand.
I know that Leigh brought a great following to the cup game at Belle Vue and I think you had a good day out.
So, why do you choose to post something that is just not right, maybe you wish to over egg Leigh's support

I've nothing against Leigh and you are going great in the Championship but, looking at the bigger picture, IF the game was to grow
and become either a major national sport or a full blown English/French/Canadian league of say, 12 clubs, neither Wakefield or Leigh
would be in the top flight.

As for what Trinity bring to SL, nothing whatsoever, they are just a team of easybeats, just ask last seasons top 8 clubs, Leeds, Huddersfield, Warrington and of course Wigan.
All of them walked straight over the top of Trinity, NOT.

The club has had many struggles during it's unbroken SL participation but, without a sugar daddy, we are slowly growing again and just like many other clubs, we hope to remain as a competitive top flight club and one day, perhaps challenge for silverware, much like Leigh.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Sat May 21, 2016 8:23 am  

Darts is a game not a sport.

Re: The RFL cannot attract money; drop P & R, install franch : Sat May 21, 2016 8:33 am  

And if it wasn't for beer and the carnival/chav atmosphere most of those people wouldnt give a cr ap about some fat blokes throwing some darts. Does anyone really want that type of marketing in Rugby?! Most RL fans can't even put up with a drum in the crowd!