FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Refs
Him 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 19 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Nov 21 22:467th Nov 21 09:30LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Campaigning for a deep attacking line

Re: Refs : Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:15 am  
Part of the reason the defenders do that is that a held call is usually followed by a quick play the ball that often catches the markers not square. I think if we applied the held call in a similar manner to the surrender or dominant call and delay the play the ball, then we'd get fewer incidents like those and also fewer attempts at a 3rd man diving at the legs of a player already held upright by 2 other defenders.
meast 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member15309No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 04 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
5th Sep 20 22:3519th Apr 17 16:28LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
huddersfudlia
Signature
Image


the Claret And Gold Machine is ready to roll

sunday September 1st 2013, when a dream became a reality!!

Re: Refs : Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:17 am  
or maybe use the held call sooner? so give more of an advantage to the ball carrier rather than the defenders?
i know ref's use the dominant/surrender call etc but if the defenders don't bring the attacker to the ground within a certain time, then the ref can call held as soon as he deems the ball carrier has done enough to warrant playing the ball stood up.

it's a mess at the moment, 2 men go high, to stop the initial momentum and to wrap the ball up, then usually a 3rd comes in to take his legs from underneath him, they then all pile on top of him and try to turn him on his back and away from his own posts, the referee has sometimes already called held by this point but then chooses not to penalise certain teams for it but are quick to penalise others for it.

back in the day, the first tackle was usually around the waist/hip with another trying to "wrap man and ball up".
for me, as soon as the ball carrier is stopped then the tackle should be called, if it means 30 penalties a game until it gets cleaned up then fine, just clean it up!
Him 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 19 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th Nov 21 22:467th Nov 21 09:30LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Campaigning for a deep attacking line

Re: Refs : Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:26 am  
But with that approach you also lose some opportunity for offloads. Plus the problem is with defenders wanting to take an attacker to the ground whilst he's got defenders holding his upper body, he's often not entirely still, he's often moving in one direction or another. If we move the held call much earlier we deny the opportunity for attackers to move forward or offload and for defenders to legitimately push the attacker backward.

But if we allow the defence more time (only equivalent to what a surrender call would give the defence) then there's no incentive for them to put another defender in to the tackle to take the attacker down. That defender can be getting back onside instead.
meast 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member15309No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 04 200222 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
5th Sep 20 22:3519th Apr 17 16:28LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
huddersfudlia
Signature
Image


the Claret And Gold Machine is ready to roll

sunday September 1st 2013, when a dream became a reality!!

Re: Refs : Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:41 pm  
if the ball carrier is "wrapped up" and not making any forward ground then the held call should be then, not 5 seconds later enabling the defenders to take him to ground.
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2490
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 27 200718 years302nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
25th Aug 22 21:1324th Aug 22 14:09LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Refs : Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:45 pm  
I have no problem with held being called quickly as long as the ruck is well policed, if the attacker is allowed to play the ball quick then they should play it to the rules " rise to your feet place the ball on the ground & play it with the foot, also don't allow them to move forward of the mark to play it" at the moment it is all one sided the attacker is allowed to do as they wish. There is so little contest for the ball now & the way the game is reffed is driving me away from from a game I have loved for over 50 years. To predictable to one dimensional & spontanious plays driven out of the game.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 17 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
2nd May 24 20:2424th Oct 19 15:32LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
MACS0647-JD
Signature
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total

Re: Refs : Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:26 am  
This thread shows the fan problem, everyone is banging on about what's wrong and how it should be reffed - but your opinions as to WHY it's wrong are very different. If you can't all agree with each other on how it should be done then clearly no ref can please all of you!

The refs do seem to have been told to speed up the PTB this year, this has led to a lot of early penalties while the players get the message, but as to the specifics,
a) you're dealing with fractions of a second, there IS no "magic moment" where a ref has to call held, it is all a matter of interpretation.
b) I disagree that "held" should be called quicker as many teams have become very good at offloading in the tackle, quite a few players manage to turn and pass significantly after their main forward momentum has been halted, and I don't want that eliminating from the game. And, by definition, if the player is able to pass, then he is not "held", is he?

The worst thing about the PTB to me is the fact that the refs have clearly been told to ignore the laws of the game on how to PTB. In many games you can go a whole half seemingly without a single player actually playing the ball with the foot, and this is giving the attacking team a huge unfair advantage. EVERY time a player rolls the ball back to the acting half-back it is a clear penalty, it HAS to be "placed" (or "dropped", but that's another story). The ball is almost never "placed", because then this causes the delay while your foot gets to the stationary ball and propels it backwards. it is almost always illegally rolled.

Either sort this out, or change the rule to permit it.
knockersbumpMKII 
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman
JoinedServiceReputation
23 years331st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Jan 70 00:0020th Jun 22 17:41LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Refs : Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:20 pm  
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:
This thread shows the fan problem, everyone is banging on about what's wrong and how it should be reffed - but your opinions as to WHY it's wrong are very different. If you can't all agree with each other on how it should be done then clearly no ref can please all of you!

The refs do seem to have been told to speed up the PTB this year, this has led to a lot of early penalties while the players get the message, but as to the specifics,
a) you're dealing with fractions of a second, there IS no "magic moment" where a ref has to call held, it is all a matter of interpretation.
b) I disagree that "held" should be called quicker as many teams have become very good at offloading in the tackle, quite a few players manage to turn and pass significantly after their main forward momentum has been halted, and I don't want that eliminating from the game. And, by definition, if the player is able to pass, then he is not "held", is he?

The worst thing about the PTB to me is the fact that the refs have clearly been told to ignore the laws of the game on how to PTB. In many games you can go a whole half seemingly without a single player actually playing the ball with the foot, and this is giving the attacking team a huge unfair advantage. EVERY time a player rolls the ball back to the acting half-back it is a clear penalty, it HAS to be "placed" (or "dropped", but that's another story). The ball is almost never "placed", because then this causes the delay while your foot gets to the stationary ball and propels it backwards. it is almost always illegally rolled.

Either sort this out, or change the rule to permit it.

The vast majority of what's wrong with the game is the policing of the PTB both from attack and defence. defenders encroaching the '10m' before the ball has even hit the ground, defenders not getting off the tackled player when held called, defenders messing about, nudging/arm in etc etc, add to that not even square half the time.
Attackers moving off the mark (some by 3-4 metres!), saw a defender penalised for standing his ground as the attacker walked forward into him which is crazy!
Attackers not playing the ball when it's taking the mick is frustrating but given the advantages for the defender at the PTB due to the way the officials apply the laws you can let the vast majority go IMHO
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star6848No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 22 201212 years326th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
14th Oct 24 06:5410th Jul 21 23:11LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Hill Valley
Signature
What you looking at?....Butt Head!!

Re: Refs : Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:20 pm  
Wow, Hull screwed by VR there
DannyB 
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach567No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 13 200618 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
14th Mar 22 20:5412th Apr 21 11:27LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
HullFC

Re: Refs : Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:23 pm  
Total joke decision, should be 12-0 then its straight 6-6 from a bent decision
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star5202
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 17 201213 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
28th Jan 18 19:3728th Jan 18 19:14LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Forever in debt to your priceless advice.
Signature
Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But as sure as God made black and white
What's down in the dark will be brought to the light

Re: Refs : Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:25 pm  
Biff Tannen wrote:
Wow, Hull screwed by VR there

Complete joke . Should have gone 2 try's up but games all square . These decisions can change the game and tbh it wasn't even a debatable decision
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 61 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to The Virtual Terrace


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Recruitment rumours and links
karetaker
3537
5m
Film game
karetaker
5231
7m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Roam Ranger
3724
8m
Rhinos Ladies
Exeter Rhino
15
12m
Transfer Talk V5
Exeter Rhino
445
13m
New Players
Deadcowboys1
113
24m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2556
25m
Pre Season - 2025
Tarquin Fueg
134
41m
Will Brough gone
Wildthing
18
45m
NRL Kick Off Rules
Big lads mat
2
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Pre Season - 2025
Tarquin Fueg
134
1m
War of the Roses
Fantastic Mr
19
1m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Roam Ranger
3724
1m
Will Brough gone
Wildthing
18
1m
NRL Kick Off Rules
Big lads mat
2
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63041
2m
Garry Schofield
AgbriggAmble
4
2m
Gary Scofield
Hullfc-white
7
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2556
2m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40548
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
Big lads mat
2
TODAY
Garry Schofield
AgbriggAmble
4
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Alffi_7
4
TODAY
Gary Scofield
Hullfc-white
7
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
taxi4stevesm
5
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Reece Dean
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Alex Holdstock
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Thomas Minns
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Josh Guzdek
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jamie Shaul
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Hodder
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Tom Halliday
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Scott Taylor appointed as Head Coach
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Schoey not a well man
Broadacres
10
TODAY
Guess whos backtrying anyway
Bullseye
4
TODAY
Welcome on board
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Will Brough gone
Wildthing
18
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Father Ted
16
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
827
England's Women Demolish The W..
649
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
942
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
745
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1030
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1539
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1773
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2039
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1628
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1871
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2256
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1793
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1876
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2036
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2189
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024 3 England M34-16Samoa M
WINT2024 2 ENGLAND W82-0WALES W
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Recruitment rumours and links
karetaker
3537
5m
Film game
karetaker
5231
7m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Roam Ranger
3724
8m
Rhinos Ladies
Exeter Rhino
15
12m
Transfer Talk V5
Exeter Rhino
445
13m
New Players
Deadcowboys1
113
24m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2556
25m
Pre Season - 2025
Tarquin Fueg
134
41m
Will Brough gone
Wildthing
18
45m
NRL Kick Off Rules
Big lads mat
2
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Pre Season - 2025
Tarquin Fueg
134
1m
War of the Roses
Fantastic Mr
19
1m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Roam Ranger
3724
1m
Will Brough gone
Wildthing
18
1m
NRL Kick Off Rules
Big lads mat
2
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63041
2m
Garry Schofield
AgbriggAmble
4
2m
Gary Scofield
Hullfc-white
7
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2556
2m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40548
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
Big lads mat
2
TODAY
Garry Schofield
AgbriggAmble
4
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Alffi_7
4
TODAY
Gary Scofield
Hullfc-white
7
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
taxi4stevesm
5
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Reece Dean
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Alex Holdstock
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Thomas Minns
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Josh Guzdek
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jamie Shaul
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Hodder
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Tom Halliday
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Scott Taylor appointed as Head Coach
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Schoey not a well man
Broadacres
10
TODAY
Guess whos backtrying anyway
Bullseye
4
TODAY
Welcome on board
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Will Brough gone
Wildthing
18
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Father Ted
16
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
827
England's Women Demolish The W..
649
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
942
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
745
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1030
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1539
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1773
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2039
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1628
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1871
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2256
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1793
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1876
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2036
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2189


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!