Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:31 am  

AXE2GRIND wrote:

Find 11 more argyles and yeah....let's play, but 1 bloke winning everything because he can outspend the rest is what we had with Wigan and that nearly killed us!

The average gate in the top division then was 7292 in 1989 when Widnes could keep up with Wigan, but that dropped to 5543 in 1995 by which time Wigan had won 21 cups in 7 years or thereabouts. One team winning all the time created a massive crisis and we were saved by a salary capped Superleague.

No disrespect to Wigan, their success was the foundation for a brilliant Junior game that has produced many players we started to see at Bradford in Superleague following their successes (Noble should be reminded that the game is nothing without player development). Noble should be reminded Wigan bought in some fantastic players at the height of their powers, not a man who is simply having his last big payday, just like many antipodeans do.

All eyes on the lad in that first game, if it's not a blockbusting performance it could be all over for SBW as the saviour of the game by 10.00.p.m. However it won't be all over for his mega wages. They could have spent that on player development....

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:15 am  

If you let clubs spend what they want, then what you will have in a couple of years time is the club that can afford to give Sonny Bill Williams a few million quid a year will start winning the Grand Final every year. There will be a 20-30,000 drop off in attendance, traditional fans will get first annoyed, second bored, and third just disengaged and stop going. Toronto would basically be the PSG of Super League until their financiers get bored and stop pouring in the money. Sounds brilliant.

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:10 pm  

Dropkick Murphy wrote:

If you let clubs spend what they want, then what you will have in a couple of years time is the club that can afford to give Sonny Bill Williams a few million quid a year will start winning the Grand Final every year. There will be a 20-30,000 drop off in attendance, traditional fans will get first annoyed, second bored, and third just disengaged and stop going. Toronto would basically be the PSG of Super League until their financiers get bored and stop pouring in the money. Sounds brilliant.

SBW signing for Toronto is an example of exactly how the marque rule should work.
A "superstar" counting on the cap as an "average" player and any club with enough brass can have 2 of them.

Having said that, it will take excellent management skills to keep the rest of the squad happy.
All of his team mates know that he's on megabucks and in many cases 10X what they are getting paid and keeping harmony in the squad, especially when they lose a few games, will be a good test of McDermott & Nobles man management skills, aside from the fact that they will all want a pay rise, which may be why Noble want's the cap lifting.

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:12 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It will take excellent management skills to keep the rest of the squad happy.All of his team mates know that he's on megabucks and in many cases 10X what they are getting paid and keeping harmony in the squad, especially when they lose a few games.

Great point from D.K.Murphy - hope you make the game for some first hand analysis DKM!

Won't all the Cas players know he's on megabucks too?? Cas have some pretty big lads who may want to make a point or two

Will it be the TWP pack standing back whilst they let SWB earn his money, whilst the Cas pack will be hunting the lad!! May be an interesting game after all DKM....

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:39 pm  

Haha, fair points all of them. I don't have a problem with Toronto, and I'm looking forward to going there in July. I do have a problem with the idea of any team (even Wires, although I'd obviously enjoy it for a while if it happened) just massively outspending everyone else and winning everything with ease by doing so. It turns the whole league into a complete waste of time. It would be bad enough if a domestic team did it, but it Toronto did it then before you know it there are calls to play the Grand Final in Canada to give their fans a chance to see what fans over here have given up on. Once the owners get fed up and the money dries up they then implode like Bradford have, and without over a century of history behind them to keep them propped up, probably just fold altogether. Just plain lifting the salary cap is not a good idea, and the two nodding dog Brians on the Toronto payroll aren't going to convince me it is.

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:18 am  

Nothus wrote:

I don't think the cap should be lifted. You've got your marquee exemptions for any big names you want to bring in.
How about we try and actually grow the sport in this country instead? Why not offer incentives for bringing players through your academy instead? And I mean far more attractive incentives than what we already have.

I don't want teams throwing money around when most clubs are only sustainable thanks to debts being underwritten by benefactors. That is not a healthy long term strategy for the sport. Any top NRL talent are here for nothing but money and once that dries up they will go back home and we will be left with nothing in their place.

This is an interesting post.

But why do clubs need any "incentive" to have an academy? It was having an academy that saw Leeds start to win lots of trophies, why Wigan & saints continue to be dominant and why Warrington more competitive since they improved their academy? Surely Noble & McDermott know Toronto are handicapped with no academy and the best players preferring to play along the M62 not jumping in and out of planes? Salford made the grand final with no academy I know, but the TWP squad as it stands shows you why Noble wants the rules changing so that he can buy the best players academies here produce, because TWP will never have an academy.

Beyond the obligatory half a dozen players the NRL don't want TWP are comprised of players who originate from academies in Wakefield, Warrington, St.Helens, Widnes, Wigan Bradford and Hull who in the end weren't good enough for Superleague. TWP were unable to recruit anyone before they had won promotion, now there's no decent players left so they pulled the SBW stunt. Is it the case TWP just want the cap changing so they can be The Manchester City of Rugby League? Good for the game? Thoughts??

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:02 am  

Donnyman wrote:

This is an interesting post.

I don't see why clubs need any "incentive" to have an academy? surely it was having an academy that saw Leeds start to win lots of trophies, why Wigan & saints continue to be dominant and Warrington more competitive since they started to get good players through their academy? Surely Noble & Mr McDermott know Toronto are handicapped with no academy probably ever? & the best players prefer to play along the M62 not jumping in and out of planes? Salford made the grand final with no academy so you can't rule out Toronto being competitive, but when you look at the TWP squad as it stands you can see exactly why Mr. Noble wants the rules changing so that it's not about developing players but about paying them more.

They have the obligatory half a dozen players the NRL don't want but the bulk of the squad are players who originate from academies in Wakefield, Warrington, St.Helens, Widnes, Wigan Bradford and Hull who in the end weren't good enough for Superleague. They all appear to remain on the TWP player roster because TWP were unable to recruit anyone before they had won promotion, now there's no decent players left?. Their only tactic left was the Marquee thing so SWB was offered an absolute fortune to try to cover TWP's inability to recruit anyone. Is it the case TWP just want the cap changing so they can outbid both the NRL and English SL for any player they want? The Manchester City of Rugby League? Good for the game? Thoughts??

Toronto would need to base their academy side in the UK (maybe they could rent Odsal ) as trying to play in Canada would be nigh on impossible.
However, as for attracting players, apart from being massively behind existing SL clubs in terms of recruitment, Toronto should have plenty of "pull" in attracting players that want to be based in a major City ?? It would certainly be different to living in Wigan or Wakefield.

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:32 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Toronto would need to base their academy side in the UK (maybe they could rent Odsal ) as trying to play in Canada would be nigh on impossible.
However, as for attracting players, apart from being massively behind existing SL clubs in terms of recruitment, Toronto should have plenty of "pull" in attracting players that want to be based in a major City ?? It would certainly be different to living in Wigan or Wakefield.

It's not really that much different in Manchester.....

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:34 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Toronto would need to base their academy side in the UK (maybe they could rent Odsal ) as trying to play in Canada would be nigh on impossible.

Wow!! What an interesting thought, TWP buy up all the best young amateur players in England to play as TWP academy out of Odsal. Is there any salary cap for Academy players?? If not all the best English junior players can be signed by TWP on massive contracts. I wondered what Mr. Perez was up to, now you have let the wrencat out of the bag!!

Seriously if something like this comes with Mr. Argylle buying Odsal and making it the Wembley of the North, and getting Bulls back on track as an SL club, which would be him giving massively to the game here, I'm certainly 100% on for that. It would be brilliant for the game.

Re: Brian Noble wants Salary cap lifted : Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:59 am  

Mr Dog wrote:

It's not really that much different in Manchester.....

Well it was Brian McDermott who as London Broncos coach said that London's inability to compete at the top level was because good players did not want to sign for Broncos and go live in relative isolation in London one of the worlds most iconic cities, they much preferred to be based along the M62. I aren't sure what the NRL players at M62 clubs do outside of playing but I would certainly hazard a guess they socialise with fellow imports at other M62 clubs. I can understand Toronto is a vibrant city but so is London, Manchester and Leeds the constant flying must be unbearable?