[b]hopefully[ a constructive look at last nights performance : Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:42 am  

My take on last night after 12 hours reflection,

Fitzpatrick, took the high ball well a couple of times but looked slow and unsure, tackling not the best.
Wilshere, did all that was asked of him
Littler, always gives 100%
Turner, out of his depth and out of position a couple of times leaving gaps on the left for quins to go in, never a centre at this point in his career
Ratchford, never a winger and was out of his depth here
Smith, leg heavily strapped and looked to be struggling with an injury. After one of the quins 1st half tries he quite rightly had a real go at Turner for his efforts, was much improved 2nd half
Paul, always a class act although the lack of ability of those around him makes him look a lesser player.
Cashmere, flatters to deceive, better to come no doubt about it
Alker, no longer the player he was but still puts 100% in, distribution from acting half is still too slow for SL
Stapleton, runs hard but only time will tell if he is SL class
Adamson, sorry but too small and lightweight, NL1 at best,
Parker, quiet 1st half maybe too quiet but kept going and will if backed become a good leader
Swain, runs hard and for me last night probably the best of the imports.
Replacements:
Leuluai, tries hard like he has since he arrived here
Walton, looked a little unfit but couldn't fault his effort
Sidlow, well worth sticking with looked the most promising of the youngsters
Nash, another one that looks like he will make the grade given games.

Team tackling was on the whole pretty poor at times, get back to basics and it will get better.

Shaun Mcrae, we need to lay off a little here, 4 games into SL and yes we've looked poor but I believe we will get there, 10 games in and a few changes on the pitch especially in some of the players efforts and we will get there. I always and still am a supporter and Shaun will get it right 4 SL games is too early for all the knee jerk reactions on here.

Fans, apart form the obvious there aren't enough of us!, the booing and abuse aimed at players is not on, if you can't say anything positive then fine say nothing , the silence would be more effective than the booing. Too many on this board expected too much too quickly from the team, last year in NL1 the standard was way way below SL standard and we just were not and aren't yet ready to compete in it.

Finally overall I expected more from our NRL imports but again ever the optimist I am sure they will deliver, as for most of our youngsters I can see long and succesful futures for, Myler, Ratchford, Sidlow, Nash, Walton and Turner and I hope it's with Salford.

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:10 am  

Without kicking you while you are down it appears you are not fit. Last night there appeared to be no urgency in the defence and your guys were blowing early. Jo Mbu's try was the sign of a tired defence. He is a smallish guy running at your sticks and should have been stopped.

Having said all of that Quins played an error free first half which is unusual for us!!

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 am  

Shed Head - thank you for a little sense at last on this board!

Some facts that perhaps we need to reflect on:

8 teams in SL are now on the maximum salary cap (that's according to the Tony Smith interview on GMR last night) - we appear to be some £400,000 below that, if you can't pay top dollar you won't get top stars, until our crowds & income levels change that's never going to alter.

There is a massive gap between NL1 & SL - just look at Castleford last year, it took them an entire season to start to adjust, and clearly the same issues are affecting both us and Celtic! (Though why Warrington are so bad is another matter )

Quins last night were excellent - Harlequins coach Brian McDermott:
"The first-half display was as clinical as I've seen since I've been at the club. "
I think we have to accept that every other team in SL will be targetting the Salford & Celtic fixtures as 2 point bankers and we can expect to be pushed harder in every match than we've ever seen before.

At the moment, after Wakefield & Castleford, the team look beaten before they start - the try after 90 seconds last night just rubbed that in, a simple simple error by Fitz but it just summed up what was to come!

So - is there any light at then end of the tunnel?
The questions to be asked are:

Do the current squad have the fundamental skill to compete at this level?
In general I agree with Shed head's assessment of the players, though I do wonder whether John Wilshere couldn't get involved more - seems a shadow of last year's player - move him to full back?

Is the coaching and team management up to scratch?
The $64,000 question! Let's face it Mr McCrae's record is not one of delivering the goods with average players - can he do it for us? Jury's out, but as Shed Head says, we are only 4 games in - halfway through then if we still see no improvement then sure, panic sets in, though whether the club could finance a change would I suspect be questionable. I'm not going to comment on FloridaGate as I (in common I'm sure with virtually ALL the supporters) don't know what happened.

What to do? GET THE BASICS RIGHT!!!! Why has our tackling become so abysmal? For the last three games I've watched 75% of our tackles going shoulder and chest high, often with two tacklers and both doing it!! - One low, one high - you can't run without your legs! That was the change that Karl Harrison brought - we must stop conceding and give ourselves some chance of staying in each game - 20 or 30 points down halfway through the first half and it's game over. We all want to see flair, quick hands, flowing rugby exciting tries, but not just to get back from 30 nil down to 30 18!!!! I think we need to dig in and sort out the defence.

Finally, shouting abuse at the players, coach and chairman really is self defeating. Without John Wilkinson this club wouldn't be in existence now. Criticism should always be constructive, and certainly no-one is above criticism, my note to Mr Wilkinson (for what it's worth ) is to think carefully about your advisors - clearly you are a good businessman, your track record proves that, you love Salford City Reds, recent history and hard cash proves that but have you had value for the money you've laid out? If not then who has been offering the advice on hiring & firing and has that been the best advice?

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:37 pm  

very good posts. I was thinking last night when i got home after the game about the changes we could make. I feel fitzy now needs to be dropped, i think we've missed having 2 out and out wingers, wilshere, henry, ratchford are not wingers. When white is fit and mcgillvary i can see wilshere going to full back and henry going to centre or the other way round. When talau is back fit, cant see littler being in the team even though he does always give 100%. I also think we need to start with paul at hooker and maybe move alker to 2nd row. Paul brings zip around the play the ball and maybe will improve our slow starts to games of late.

Also maybe start with lulu and have cashmere off the bench. i personally would have ratchford on the bench to come on for paul because he has that off the cuff style which we need at the min because we are far too predictable!

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:42 pm  

at last some sensible postings.

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:44 pm  

Jaymc9 wrote:

very good posts. I was thinking last night when i got home after the game about the changes we could make. I feel fitzy now needs to be dropped, i think we've missed having 2 out and out wingers, wilshere, henry, ratchford are not wingers. When white is fit and mcgillvary i can see wilshere going to full back and henry going to centre or the other way round. When talau is back fit, cant see littler being in the team even though he does always give 100%. I also think we need to start with paul at hooker and maybe move alker to 2nd row. Paul brings zip around the play the ball and maybe will improve our slow starts to games of late.

Also maybe start with lulu and have cashmere off the bench. i personally would have ratchford on the bench to come on for paul because he has that off the cuff style which we need at the min because we are far too predictable!

I agree about putting Wilshere at FB and dropping Fitzy but i still think Alker offers something at hooker with his running from dummy half. His distribution is still too slow but in the last few games Alker has looked good on the rare occasions that we've managed a quick play the ball and he's run straight at the defence.

We need to get White back if only just to get Henry playing in his natural position at centre because, as people have already said before, he hasn't looked comfortable on the wing.

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:24 pm  

BartonFlyer wrote:

Shed Head - thank you for a little sense at last on this board!

Some facts that perhaps we need to reflect on:

8 teams in SL are now on the maximum salary cap (that's according to the Tony Smith interview on GMR last night) - we appear to be some £400,000 below that, if you can't pay top dollar you won't get top stars, until our crowds & income levels change that's never going to alter.

There is a massive gap between NL1 & SL - just look at Castleford last year, it took them an entire season to start to adjust, and clearly the same issues are affecting both us and Celtic! (Though why Warrington are so bad is another matter )

Quins last night were excellent - Harlequins coach Brian McDermott:
"The first-half display was as clinical as I've seen since I've been at the club. "
I think we have to accept that every other team in SL will be targetting the Salford & Celtic fixtures as 2 point bankers and we can expect to be pushed harder in every match than we've ever seen before.

At the moment, after Wakefield & Castleford, the team look beaten before they start - the try after 90 seconds last night just rubbed that in, a simple simple error by Fitz but it just summed up what was to come!

So - is there any light at then end of the tunnel?
The questions to be asked are:

Do the current squad have the fundamental skill to compete at this level?
In general I agree with Shed head's assessment of the players, though I do wonder whether John Wilshere couldn't get involved more - seems a shadow of last year's player - move him to full back?

Is the coaching and team management up to scratch?
The $64,000 question! Let's face it Mr McCrae's record is not one of delivering the goods with average players - can he do it for us? Jury's out, but as Shed Head says, we are only 4 games in - halfway through then if we still see no improvement then sure, panic sets in, though whether the club could finance a change would I suspect be questionable. I'm not going to comment on FloridaGate as I (in common I'm sure with virtually ALL the supporters) don't know what happened.

What to do? GET THE BASICS RIGHT!!!! Why has our tackling become so abysmal? For the last three games I've watched 75% of our tackles going shoulder and chest high, often with two tacklers and both doing it!! - One low, one high - you can't run without your legs! That was the change that Karl Harrison brought - we must stop conceding and give ourselves some chance of staying in each game - 20 or 30 points down halfway through the first half and it's game over. We all want to see flair, quick hands, flowing rugby exciting tries, but not just to get back from 30 nil down to 30 18!!!! I think we need to dig in and sort out the defence.

Finally, shouting abuse at the players, coach and chairman really is self defeating. Without John Wilkinson this club wouldn't be in existence now. Criticism should always be constructive, and certainly no-one is above criticism, my note to Mr Wilkinson (for what it's worth ) is to think carefully about your advisors - clearly you are a good businessman, your track record proves that, you love Salford City Reds, recent history and hard cash proves that but have you had value for the money you've laid out? If not then who has been offering the advice on hiring & firing and has that been the best advice?

Barton Flyer and Shed Head thank you for restoring my faith in genuine Salford fans.

To add to your constructive comments one should look at the kicking game that we have/have not, last night we made two decent kicks one in the first half that we scored off shortly after and another 40/20 in the second half that also resulted in a try later on.

On the other hand Harlequins and Luke Dorn in particular , continually made our players turn to collect the ball and every kick went into a space and we had to drop out several times.

With regard to the booing and abuse to the players,coaching staff, directors and may I hasten to add some of the admin staff it just shows what these morons see as acceptable, are we the family club in a family sport that we pretend to be?

Where I sit in the main stand, the spectators on the whole are just as keen and enthusiastic as anyone with one difference, they on the whole offer constructive criticism but rarely if ever come out with the stupid chants and comments such as we here on this forum and at the games.

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:29 pm  

I said after the Celtic game that it will be a long time before we get another two points. I don't expect us to win many this season and expect a few stuffings along the way especially against the top teams. I did however expect us to be much more competitive against the like of Cas and Harlequins than we have been. Looking at the fixtures to come and the performances to date, that next 2 points could well be next season. I hope i'm wrong.

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:11 pm  

Very good posts giving the voice of reason but I would like to add that 99% of Salford fans are realistic, most fans would have accepted 1 - 2 wins from the first 4 games & most expect to be no higher than fourth from the bottom come the end of the season, me included.
I think & I can only speak for myself having followed Salford home & away for more years than I care to remember, it seems 4 games in the body language & lack of teams sprit & fitness coupled with many fans losing there jobs in the present credit crunch (including myself) are not going to accept a lack of perceived effort.
I agree with all the comments but I believe the margin of defeat is not down to the gap between NL1 & Super league but down to unrest in the camp & this I believe from the terrace is why we are seeing such dissatisfaction.

: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:13 pm  

I hope you are wrong as well mate but, like you, fear the worst. I don't see where the next points will come from. As I have said on several occasions though; it is not losing that is the problem but the manner in which we are losing.