Re: 2,381 : Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:23 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Super League can't support 14 teams it would be far better to bring it down to 10 and put 10 quality teams on the park in areas that actually want league and will go and support it. If that means two of those 10 are French then fair enough.

Good call.....Ultimately, if the product on the pitch is rubbish, then people won't want to watch it.

Despite what we claim, if we were as bad as London/Wakefield?Widnes/etc, then our crowds would soon drop.

The main problem for London is that they are selling a mediocre product to a mainly disinterested public.....Its like going to a teetotal community and trying to turn them to the joys of alcohol by selling them Skol....

Re: 2,381 : Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:30 am  

Wigan had to cheat to avoid relehation and still had maSsive crowds.

It is more a case of militant anti-league mentality amongst londoners. Not helped by irvine and that other prick!

Re: 2,381 : Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:36 pm  

El Diablo wrote: If they and the Skolars continue the work they're doing to expand grass roots participation down there then I'll be happy. A mate of mine teaches in London and told me that RL is now the 2nd biggest sport in London's schools in terms of numbers participating. Obviously I wouldn't rely on his word as evidence (he may also have been drinking) but there does seem to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that they've got a lot of kids playing RL down there. Is it the Broncos and the Skolars that are doing the grass roots work though? Look at this website, starting at this page: http://www.londonrl.com/london_rl/about_us The participation figures on there are impressive and 1-2 years out of date so may be even better now. However, that page states this work is done by the RFL team, not by the pro teams. So it's almost as if the two things are independent. Certainly the rise in participation does not seem to have lead to a rise in Broncos crowds or a significant rise in home grown players. Two arguments I've always offered in support of a London team in SL were a) media affect / TV / sponsorship deals and b) player pool. But I'm starting to doubt any positive impression on either from the Broncos.

El Diablo wrote: If they and the Skolars continue the work they're doing to expand grass roots participation down there then I'll be happy. A mate of mine teaches in London and told me that RL is now the 2nd biggest sport in London's schools in terms of numbers participating. Obviously I wouldn't rely on his word as evidence (he may also have been drinking) but there does seem to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that they've got a lot of kids playing RL down there. Is it the Broncos and the Skolars that are doing the grass roots work though? Look at this website, starting at this page: http://www.londonrl.com/london_rl/about_us The participation figures on there are impressive and 1-2 years out of date so may be even better now. However, that page states this work is done by the RFL team, not by the pro teams. So it's almost as if the two things are independent. Certainly the rise in participation does not seem to have lead to a rise in Broncos crowds or a significant rise in home grown players. Two arguments I've always offered in support of a London team in SL were a) media affect / TV / sponsorship deals and b) player pool. But I'm starting to doubt any positive impression on either from the Broncos.

Re: 2,381 : Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:51 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

Wigan had to cheat to avoid relehation and still had maSsive crowds.

It is more a case of militant anti-league mentality amongst londoners. Not helped by irvine and that other prick!

Southerners are not militant about being anti-league in the way that northerners are about union.

The difficult in taking a sport like league to London is that although there are so many people there, there isn't a core market that would look at a new sport. A lot of Londoners are transitory people passing through - either foreigners or people who have moved to London as a career move and are just renting and because of the cost of housing in London they plan on moving out somewhere else to settle down. It's hard to get single people on their own to come to a new sport, its easier to attract families or people that already have family or friends that go. I would bet that a large proportion of the new fans that have come to watch Warrington in the past few years were from households where their grandad or uncle etc used to watch Wire and/or they know someone from work goes so if they fancy it they have someone to go with. In London out of the long standing Londoners, the city is divided along geographical lines around football and there are so many football clubs most people have that allegiance to a football club.

I just don't see where you can get supporters from in London, despite all the people there, everything that has been tried has failed to make an impact.

[Paul Thexton]

Re: 2,381 : Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:28 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Southerners are not militant about being anti-league in the way that northerners are about union.

I'd say that's a matter of opinion, in my experience the exact opposite is true. People are free to like and dislike any sport. For example, personally I get bored silly by watching Football, I have simply no interest in it beyond watching the occasional match "because there's nothing else on".

As far as attracting new fans to Rugby League all we can do is challenge prejudice with effective marketing.

Re: 2,381 : Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:36 pm  

SEB wrote: Is it the Broncos and the Skolars that are doing the grass roots work though? Look at this website, starting at this page: http://www.londonrl.com/london_rl/about_us The participation figures on there are impressive and 1-2 years out of date so may be even better now. However, that page states this work is done by the RFL team, not by the pro teams. So it's almost as if the two things are independent. Certainly the rise in participation does not seem to have lead to a rise in Broncos crowds or a significant rise in home grown players. Two arguments I've always offered in support of a London team in SL were a) media affect / TV / sponsorship deals and b) player pool. But I'm starting to doubt any positive impression on either from the Broncos. The participation work is good, no complaints there. But can you show a causal link between participation and actual people through the turn styles? Or do we need to be patient?

SEB wrote: Is it the Broncos and the Skolars that are doing the grass roots work though? Look at this website, starting at this page: http://www.londonrl.com/london_rl/about_us The participation figures on there are impressive and 1-2 years out of date so may be even better now. However, that page states this work is done by the RFL team, not by the pro teams. So it's almost as if the two things are independent. Certainly the rise in participation does not seem to have lead to a rise in Broncos crowds or a significant rise in home grown players. Two arguments I've always offered in support of a London team in SL were a) media affect / TV / sponsorship deals and b) player pool. But I'm starting to doubt any positive impression on either from the Broncos. The participation work is good, no complaints there. But can you show a causal link between participation and actual people through the turn styles? Or do we need to be patient?

Re: 2,381 : Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:50 pm  

The RFL have tried and tried again with the London experiment, and bar the early Fulham days (and the early SL days), it's not worked. Don't ask me why. They've had different sites to build the support on, and they've moved within a couple of years of being at each venue. They had a decent side when SL started. They've managed to attract NRL names, they've had immunity from relegation, and umpteen £'s thrown at them.....the cockneys (as a whole) aren't interested in our game.

I'm sure we'll be having this discussion in 10 and then another 10 years time. It's time for the RFL to bite the bullet, and make a decision, before the lack of crowds makes it for them.


P.S. jdrocket. Why do you have a picture of the rock world's greatest drummer as an avatar. You seem a little too young to be appreciating a dinosaur band
I 've got his keyboard playing mate as mine.
All we need is for Matt King's Cat to get a picture of Mr Rutherford, and we're sorted

Re: 2,381 : Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:34 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

The participation work is good, no complaints there. But can you show a causal link between participation and actual people through the turn styles? Or do we need to be patient?

No, I can't. Hence my comments: "Certainly the rise in participation does not seem to have lead to a rise in Broncos crowds or a significant rise in home grown players....I'm starting to doubt any positive impression on either from the Broncos."

Re: 2,381 : Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:00 pm  

Essential reading for this topic (you need to be a registered user of the site though): http://runningrugby.com/tickets-databas ... om-league/ Some highlights: The RFL says that the number of London & SE schools that participate in their national knockout tournament, the Carnegie Champions Schools, has more than doubled in the space of the past six years from 43 to this season’s 89. In addition, a total of 31 colleges take part in the series, whereas just five entered in 2009. University rugby is blossoming as well, so the RFL claims, with 13 institutions registered now as opposed to a mere half-dozen in 2008/09. The RFL figures say that over 1,400 junior players were registered in London & SE last year – almost three times as many as reported in 2006. however: Cameron Paul, secretary of South London Storm, admits that numbers have fallen at his rugby league club: “In 2006/07 we would have 40, 50, 60 players down here training. Last year we would probably have 20 on average and 30 on a good night. I think there are a few extra teams around now. It’s not a cost issue; it costs £80 per season plus travel expenses to play for us, which is not prohibitive. I think people are working extra hours and have other commitments. There’s a lot going on in London.” London’s Super League side has got off to a poor start in its first season back under the Broncos banner, but how important is success for the professionals at grass roots level in the capital to drive participation? “It’s not a big factor,” says Paul. “When the Broncos do well we talk about it, but we generally play at the same time as them (Saturday afternoons or Friday evenings) and so never get to see them.” “I think people’s perceptions of the success of the game (in London) are too often judged by the success of the Broncos,” Steel responds. “It’s completely detached; it’s a morale boost if they are successful, and may encourage some to take up the sport, but the success of the community game is not linked to the on-field success of the Broncos. “There are a lot of people in London interested in rugby league, but the challenge for the Broncos is that most support other teams and will only go to The Stoop if their club is playing.”

Essential reading for this topic (you need to be a registered user of the site though): http://runningrugby.com/tickets-databas ... om-league/ Some highlights: The RFL says that the number of London & SE schools that participate in their national knockout tournament, the Carnegie Champions Schools, has more than doubled in the space of the past six years from 43 to this season’s 89. In addition, a total of 31 colleges take part in the series, whereas just five entered in 2009. University rugby is blossoming as well, so the RFL claims, with 13 institutions registered now as opposed to a mere half-dozen in 2008/09. The RFL figures say that over 1,400 junior players were registered in London & SE last year – almost three times as many as reported in 2006. however: Cameron Paul, secretary of South London Storm, admits that numbers have fallen at his rugby league club: “In 2006/07 we would have 40, 50, 60 players down here training. Last year we would probably have 20 on average and 30 on a good night. I think there are a few extra teams around now. It’s not a cost issue; it costs £80 per season plus travel expenses to play for us, which is not prohibitive. I think people are working extra hours and have other commitments. There’s a lot going on in London.” London’s Super League side has got off to a poor start in its first season back under the Broncos banner, but how important is success for the professionals at grass roots level in the capital to drive participation? “It’s not a big factor,” says Paul. “When the Broncos do well we talk about it, but we generally play at the same time as them (Saturday afternoons or Friday evenings) and so never get to see them.” “I think people’s perceptions of the success of the game (in London) are too often judged by the success of the Broncos,” Steel responds. “It’s completely detached; it’s a morale boost if they are successful, and may encourage some to take up the sport, but the success of the community game is not linked to the on-field success of the Broncos. “There are a lot of people in London interested in rugby league, but the challenge for the Broncos is that most support other teams and will only go to The Stoop if their club is playing.”

Re: 2,381 : Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:02 pm  

That last bit was interesting - many London based RL players don't go to watch the Broncos much because they are either playing themselves (fixture clashes seems like barmy unjoined up planning) or they actually support other SL sides!