Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:39 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Are you suggesting that Holbrook could transform this Wire side?... not a chance in reality.

You had a half decent squad with a poor coach and rightly changed it.. We have a squad with massive inefficiencies. Simply changing the coach wouldn't change a thing.. We are paying for poor recruitment and a poor quality academy.

Honestly none of your players played worse on Friday than Don Peyroux did at times last year under KC - in the tight SC era were in at the moment it’s coaches who can get the best out of the Dom Peyroux’s in every squad who are going to get the recognition (see Powell whose built a team of them). That’s what Holbrook has done at Saints, and it creates a platform for the Robys and the Walmsleys and the Barbas to look good from. Tony Smith was never that type of coach imo, and initially looks like Price isn’t either. But neither is Wane or Radford (but as your said previously, decent looking recruitment/ production compensates for it).

From the outside, what you seen to be lacking is any confidence to push the pass, and any competition to force the pass to stick - that doesn’t boil down to the players you have or haven’t got. Holbrook has done incredibly well at creating “artificial” competition for places (moving LMS back to prop, moving Makinson into the centres), and instilling the confidence to follow it through (dropping Smith for Richardson).

Whether Holbrook would have been able to do this in the same way with the Warrington squad? Who knows.

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:46 pm  

Out of interest, who would you take out of our side who would improve Saints?... I'd suggest very few and definitely not from our mediocre back division?

That actually confirms my original point of where our problems lie...

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:54 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Out of interest, who would you take out of our side who would improve Saints?... I'd suggest very few and definitely not from our mediocre back division?

That actually confirms my original point of where our problems lie...

Yes and think of the cause of this, and the cause of that cause.

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:59 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Cunningham didn't win a GF he got appointed just after that, Saints last GF win was in Nathan Brown's last season.

TS had won the league leaders' shield and made two major finals in 2016 so the situations weren't directly comparable. Had KC achieved that there would have been a stronger argument for giving it a bit longer.

But if decisive action yields results, why not take it?

If you were to pick up the papers this week and saw the story "Wolves set to part company with Price, with former Bulldogs coach Des Hasler understood to be lined up to replace him" would you be on here arguing that we should give Price more time, or would you like the idea of the move?

Also does Geoff Toovey have a job?

If that case I would be delighted with the appointment but it's a little unlikely. If we end the season playing like we are playing now then that would be the time to change.

Anyway the point of this thread has been lost. We are focussing on poor players/player not performing, lack of ldeadership. Yes they are poor but the real problem is how the clubs custodians allowed Warrington to decline from the peak of 2011 to a very sorry 2018 side.

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:12 pm  

The current squad is not too dissimilar to the one that won the league leaders' shield in 2016.

The main differences since then are:
Roberts for Sandow
K Brown for Gidley
Goodwin for R Evans
Cooper for Sims
BMM for Westerman

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:46 pm  

Yep, and in 2016 we won the LLS and came 6 inches from winning the CC and 7 pts off winning the GF, despite, as we all agree, having a worse side than we did in the 2012(ish) golden era.

Come back when Saints have won anything.

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:52 pm  

Well exactly, the shiny headed baby has yet to win anything. Long way to go and an injury to Barba and all of a sudden peyroux goes back to himself and LMS, Amor, Swift et al join him.

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:14 pm  

but they are considerably closer to winning something than us

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:09 pm  

First off, I couldn't give a shiny 5h1t about St Helens. I care about us. Not having some hypothetical willy measuring contest.

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record. THERE IS A MALAISE ABOUT OUR CLUB.
Smith stayed 3 years too long. Since the moment MonaghanM got stretchered off in 13's GF, we've been in a downward spiral(let's not let 16's mediocrity cloud our judgement).
Smith doing an Alex Ferguson, and leaving his successor with a crock of 5h1te to deal with
Crap transfer deals for big money
Bland recruitment
Crap contract extensions
Boring on field rugby
A month, YES, A MONTH to find a coach. That says to me, we've been been blown out more times than an airport windsock.
And a CoO/CEO or whatever convoluted title you want to give him. HE'S NOT A BUSINESS MAN. What are we playing at?

To me, we've now regressed to the levels of where we were at
a) the last days of Tony Barrow/early days of Johnno
b)the first two years of DVDV when we were skint
c) Anderson/Plange/Cullen

Again, we are not ruthless enough. Too chummy with people.
Is Moran losing interest? I know he has other interests in the music industry, which will earn him TONS more money.
If he is, we really are f00ked.

Re: Last 12 months - Wire and Saints Transformations : Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:05 pm  

I had a quick look at saints results fron when Holbrook took over last May. Yes they had a few decent results and they put a few points on the likes of salford and huddersfield but they were not destroying everybody.
I think they beat salford by one point and they lost 3 games on the run at the start of August. They were not all that but they put a few decent performances together at the end of the year and then started this year on fire.
The difference is that we sign a new coach at the start of the season and with that comes all of the early season optimism that we all go through (that can put a big expectation from the fan base). Holbrook got from May to September as a gimme. He got close enough to the GF to gain a bit of momentum.
If we had signed Price last may anything he did would have been a bonus after the start of last season we had under Smith. He gets chance to weigh up what we have got and what wr need.
Price has a tough job on his hands there is no doubt and the next 4 games could be pivotal.
catalan
Wakey
Widnes
Cas
Lose all 4 and he may as well pack his bags
Win all 4 and we will all be booking seats for old trafford.
If it is 50/50 then i am prepared to see the rest of the season through so that he can assess what he needs. It is the players that are dropping the ball, giving away penalties and missing tackles not him so for the time being he gets my support.