Re: Daryl Powell : Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:00 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

Well said. Tony Smith took time to get the side into shape and got rid of high profile players (Gleeson) and dropped others (Briers).

No more "filler" signings or "gamble" or "last chance saloons". Less is more. Go for quality.


Some atrocious singings since 2014 (start of our demise)

Roy Asotasi
Anthony England
Matthew Russell
Gary Wheeler
Ryan Bailey
Ben Pomeroy
Dom Crosby
Jordan Cox (RIP)
Matty Blythe
Sitaleki Akoula
Matty Smith
Lama Tasi
Leilani Latu
Luther Burrell


Quality players lost since 2014
Lee Briers
Ritchie Myler
Michael Monaghan
Brett Hodgson
Ben Westwood
Paul Wood
Ryan Atkins
Simon Grix
Trent Waterhouse

Agreed mate, but you’ve missed 2 of the very worst out there…..Inglis and Tyrone Roberts. Truly terrible.

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:44 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

All of those would seem valid but there has been a definite change in the post Gatcliffe era.

in the mid 2000s to early 2010s our recruitment involved:

a) Genuine superstars who any club in the world would have liked to attract, and who lived up to their big expectations (Gleeson, Morley, Monaghan, King, Hodgson)
b) Players with a reputation of good rather than superstar but whose performance was right up with the superstars (Hicks, Carvell, Louis Anderson, Higham)
c) Young players with promise who turned out to be far better than we expected (Westwood, Bridge, Grix, Harrison, Hill....going back further you could include Briers although he was an outlier in an era of generally crap recruitment!)
d) Some misses: players who had a big reputation and or had won stuff at other clubs, who didn't deliver what we expected (Swann, Rauhihi, Reardon, Cardiss, Vinnie Anderson).

As we transition from the late Cullen era into the early TS era you see category d drop off and more signings in a and b.

But in the later TS era (post Gatcliffe) we had a reversal of that trend. We're not signing the a/b/c's any more, we're signing a lot of d's.

This suggests to me that we're not identifying the right players, we're going for names that seem like they have done well elsewhere and hoping they translate/improve with us. But how many of them actually do? How many of the players we have signed in recent years do you say "well he improved at Warrington compared to what he was with his previous club"?

Couldn’t agree more.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:27 am  

DallasMead2 wrote:

Agreed mate, but you’ve missed 2 of the very worst out there…..Inglis and Tyrone Roberts. Truly terrible.

I'll throw this one out here again to the roberts haters, who took us to a challenge up and grand final in 2018?

Cos both ratchford and kevin brown were both called rotten and not good enough as well. so someone must have done something...

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:37 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

All of those would seem valid but there has been a definite change in the post Gatcliffe era.

in the mid 2000s to early 2010s our recruitment involved:

a) Genuine superstars who any club in the world would have liked to attract, and who lived up to their big expectations (Gleeson, Morley, Monaghan, King, Hodgson)
b) Players with a reputation of good rather than superstar but whose performance was right up with the superstars (Hicks, Carvell, Louis Anderson, Higham)
c) Young players with promise who turned out to be far better than we expected (Westwood, Bridge, Grix, Harrison, Hill....going back further you could include Briers although he was an outlier in an era of generally crap recruitment!)
d) Some misses: players who had a big reputation and or had won stuff at other clubs, who didn't deliver what we expected (Swann, Rauhihi, Reardon, Cardiss, Vinnie Anderson).

As we transition from the late Cullen era into the early TS era you see category d drop off and more signings in a and b.

But in the later TS era (post Gatcliffe) we had a reversal of that trend. We're not signing the a/b/c's any more, we're signing a lot of d's.

This suggests to me that we're not identifying the right players, we're going for names that seem like they have done well elsewhere and hoping they translate/improve with us. But how many of them actually do? How many of the players we have signed in recent years do you say "well he improved at Warrington compared to what he was with his previous club"?

Just regarding that point, you need to take into account the shift in the sport and the world financially at that point.

we signed the 4 nrl players for 2008 and on 4 year contracts (initially) as part of the franchising sequence, which were able to do with the strength of the pound against the aussie dollar, aided by the image rights loophole that we were terrorized over and when it went to court, apparently we weren't; able to give the overseas players a chunk of money tax free, even monaghan said at the time it was very disapointing he wasn't going to be getting the money they said they would be, and there were queries about him and kingy leaving (after their form had improved).

And that wasn't just us, that affected the entire league, as demonstrated by the ditching of the exiles team when they realised in 2014 most of the overseas players in SL were dross. QUICK ADDITION TO THIS -THIS WAS WHY THE MARQUEE EXEMPTION WAS INTRODUCED

Granted we still signed some nrl players under smith in this period, but overlapping sims and asotasi aside it wasn't the same as previously.

QU

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:15 pm  

DallasMead2 wrote:

Wires71 wrote:

Well said. Tony Smith took time to get the side into shape and got rid of high profile players (Gleeson) and dropped others (Briers).

No more "filler" signings or "gamble" or "last chance saloons". Less is more. Go for quality.


Some atrocious singings since 2014 (start of our demise)

Roy Asotasi
Anthony England
Matthew Russell
Gary Wheeler
Ryan Bailey
Ben Pomeroy
Dom Crosby
Jordan Cox (RIP)
Matty Blythe
Sitaleki Akoula
Matty Smith
Lama Tasi
Leilani Latu
Luther Burrell


Quality players lost since 2014
Lee Briers
Ritchie Myler
Michael Monaghan
Brett Hodgson
Ben Westwood
Paul Wood
Ryan Atkins
Simon Grix
Trent Waterhouse

Agreed mate, but you’ve missed 2 of the very worst out there…..Inglis and Tyrone Roberts. Truly terrible.

And let's not forget the perma-injured Mitchell Dodds & the failed experiment of Luther Burrell.

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:36 pm  

ninearches wrote:

And let's not forget the perma-injured Mitchell Dodds & the failed experiment of Luther Burrell.

I left off Dodds as the broken leg was very unfortunate and we couldn't foresee that. Burrell is on the list though.

What I believe to be successful signings since 2014 (signings that had a significant positive impact on the teams' performance)

2014 - none
2015 - Daryl Clark
2016 - Gidley, Lineham, Westerman
2017 - Cooper, Hiku, (Brown?)
2018 - Charnley, Murdoch-Masilla, Goodwyn
2019 - Austin, Walker, Mamo
2020 - Ashton, Widdop
2021 - Williams

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:51 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

How many of the players we have signed in recent years do you say "well he improved at Warrington compared to what he was with his previous club"?

I'm struggling to think of any. Maybe Mamo and Walker?

We sign a lot of "projects" or "potential" only for them to be out of the door without extension. You would think out of the recent list we would get 1 or 2 first teamers?

Savelio
Brand
Shelford
Johnson (Luis)
Kibula
Robson*
Doro*

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:10 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

I'll throw this one out here again to the roberts haters, who took us to a challenge up and grand final in 2018?

Cos both ratchford and kevin brown were both called rotten and not good enough as well. so someone must have done something...

Well if you think Tyrone was the key to getting us to those 2 finals you get your head tested

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Daryl Powell : Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:55 pm  

sir adrian morley wrote:

Well if you think Tyrone was the key to getting us to those 2 finals you get your head tested

who was then?

Re: Daryl Powell : Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:45 pm  

I'm even more worried now. It's getting worse not better