Re: Today’s game v Hull : Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:17 pm  

Alffi_7 wrote:

Maybe Wrench is being seen as a winger these days? If he was playing wing in the reserves that seems plausible…?

Wrench has played(out of position)on the wing plenty of times for us. He's still looked good and scored tries.

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:47 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

Just to say, I'm not against the lad, I want him to succeed, if we had him ashton and dufty in the side, that would be unreal.

But there's a lot of revisionist thinking en masse about Toby King and how we had to keep hold of him cos the club would be poor at recruitment which turned into we overpaid him, why did we keep him the club is poor at recruitment

That is the problem with the club as a whole though. Loyalty can’t be bought, and without a realistic bait of having a strong chance of success, our recruitment and retention policy is to have the biggest number.

At the time we resigned King, he had been with the club for 5 or 6 years. A player in a similar position, let’s say at Saints for example, would get offered terms that suit the team and their role within it. They might get offered more elsewhere, but the bait with Saints is that you’re almost a 50:50 chance of getting to a big final. Saints have a strong hand when trying to keep them, but with the safety net that everyone wants to win, and you are serial winners, so recruiting a replacement is simple.

With us, Hull, Huddersfield etc. you have to win the number race. You could go to any one of them three clubs and have a similar chance on winning trophies, so you might as well take the money offer.

It’s a difficult cycle until you can create effective production from within and use the youth system to create an atmosphere where kids feel they need to be at our club, because it’s the best place for them to develop. But also where we can instil that atmosphere on those players in their way that we are a club that are ruthless enough to cut a big name player and replace him with an academy product, and create that dynamic where every session you are competing for your shirt on a Sunday, not just going through the motions because you’re going to get picked anyway.

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:36 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

But there's a lot of revisionist thinking en masse about Toby King and how we had to keep hold of him cos the club would be poor at recruitment which turned into we overpaid him, why did we keep him the club is poor at recruitment

If the search facility on here worked we could see that many people at the time were surprised and amazed at the furore around King's extension discussions and being linked to other clubs - including Saints. There were also those who thought he was the next Gene Miles and that we had to sign him. So I don't believe it was not unanimous "we must sign him".

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:09 am  

Wires71 wrote: If the search facility on here worked we could see that many people at the time were surprised and amazed at the furore around King's extension discussions and being linked to other clubs - including Saints. There were also those who thought he was the next Gene Miles and that we had to sign him. So I don't believe it was not unanimous "we must sign him". With the odd exception about not overpaying (which is a fair point) and wiremansam being his usual contrary attention seeking self, this thread seems to have a bit of a consensus viewtopic.php?f=21&t=633510

Wires71 wrote: If the search facility on here worked we could see that many people at the time were surprised and amazed at the furore around King's extension discussions and being linked to other clubs - including Saints. There were also those who thought he was the next Gene Miles and that we had to sign him. So I don't believe it was not unanimous "we must sign him". With the odd exception about not overpaying (which is a fair point) and wiremansam being his usual contrary attention seeking self, this thread seems to have a bit of a consensus viewtopic.php?f=21&t=633510

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:16 am  

Wires71 wrote:

Well in his Wire days ...

Pros
1. He could collect a cross field kick and score.

Cons
1. He lacked pace. HE WAS ABOUT AVERAGE, ID NEVER CONSIDERD IT AS A PROBLEM
2. He didn't create opportunities for his winger. GRANTED HES MORE OF A SENIOR TYPE CENTRE THAN A GLEESON BUT HE DID OK,AND AT THE START OF 2021 THROUGH TO HIM GETTING INJURED, THAT LEFT SIDE ATTACK, KING LINEHAM AND WIDDOP WERE SCORING FOR FUN
3. His defensive positioning was all over the place, often shooting out of the line. 2021 AND BEFORE HE WAS A HIGHLU RATED DEFENSIVE CENTRE, WHOD BEEN AN ENGLAND INTERNATIONAL AND DREAM TEAM PICK
4. He insisted on training with his dog.
5. He's a little forgetful of essential ID documents.

People are conflating last years king in a basket case club butting heads with Powell to the one prior to this. He wasn't anywhere near as bad as people are making out, just now he's on a poop list people are making out he was a lot worse than he was.

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:34 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote: With the odd exception about not overpaying (which is a fair point) and wiremansam being his usual contrary attention seeking self, this thread seems to have a bit of a consensus https://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=633510 Thanks for that. Opinions seemed to vary from "the best centre in SL" to "not in the top 10 centres in Warrington's recent squads".

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote: With the odd exception about not overpaying (which is a fair point) and wiremansam being his usual contrary attention seeking self, this thread seems to have a bit of a consensus https://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=633510 Thanks for that. Opinions seemed to vary from "the best centre in SL" to "not in the top 10 centres in Warrington's recent squads".

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:38 am  

It seems difficult both to get off the "poop" list & the young outstanding "future star" list. Reality is that players are not usually as bad or as good as all that.

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:40 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

People are conflating last years king in a basket case club butting heads with Powell to the one prior to this. He wasn't anywhere near as bad as people are making out, just now he's on a poop list people are making out he was a lot worse than he was.

His form prior to signing his contract (under Price in May 2021) was good. Then for the rest of 2021 he was poor if you recall. I think he scored 1 or 2 tries in the remainder of the season. Then 2022 we all know what happened.

Personally I think he is an average (at best) SL centre but certainly not worth an elevated contract. If he doesn't come back to Warrington I won't be too troubled. Others rate him much higher and that's fine. Time will tell anyway.

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:48 am  

It would be much easier if we knew just how much players are actually paid. Unfortunately we guess.
Someone even suggested that players might accept less money to play St Helens or Wigan ... but we'll never really know. One thing that certainly doesn't help King's popularity is the thought that he is paid a fortune.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Today’s game v Hull : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:56 am  

Wires71 wrote:

His form prior to signing his contract (under Price in May 2021) was good. Then for the rest of 2021 he was poor if you recall. I think he scored 1 or 2 tries in the remainder of the season. Then 2022 we all know what happened.

Personally I think he is an average (at best) SL centre but certainly not worth an elevated contract. If he doesn't come back to Warrington I won't be too troubled. Others rate him much higher and that's fine. Time will tell anyway.

Yup, for some weird reason at the end of 21(after widdop came back as well) we just stopped what we had been doing successfully. And slithered across the finishing line.