Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:38 am  

Wires71 wrote: People forget this game in early 2009. London 60 - 8 Wire. http://www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/ma ... on-wolves/ As Smith said at the time "As far as I am concerned we have hit the lowest point, but sometimes you have to reach that to start climbing again," "The players have to make a choice. They can either go and sulk or stick with me and try to rectify things. The scoreboard rarely lies and we were comfortably second-best today." We went on to win the Challenge Cup later that season. Smith inherited a basket case without any glimmer of success since the early 90’s. He was out third coach in 7 or 8 months and didn’t have the benefit of a pre-season in that period. He walked in the door, to the demotion of the man who was to act as his assistant and got better results. We have had Powell as the coach elect since March(approx) of last year, months of planning and preparing for the squad he would have and could add to and take away. He had a full pre-season without a major international drain. Hit the ground running with 3 out of 3 and then the wheels have fell off. He has had 2 opportunities (I think) to have ‘mini pre-seasons’ when we don’t have fixtures, to hard-reset the team, which is actually quite important rather than just recovery into prep mid-week. Smith didn’t get that as he took us to Wembley. And yet now, we have regressed, week on week. I’m biased, because I thoroughly enjoyed Smith’s 2009-2016 era and I have a respect and loyalty to him, but it is incomparable between the impact of the two coaches. The most optimism I have felt since March is reading that Wane is hoping that getting our 5 guys into a different environment might help them to enjoy their rugby again and take it back to their club. I just hope Wane is right and he can get some spirit into those 5 guys and they can bring that back in to our team and use it as a springboard. I don’t want us to fail, not at all. But, I can’t help but watch on with agony as great players leave only to be replaced by journeymen, in the hope of progression.

Wires71 wrote: People forget this game in early 2009. London 60 - 8 Wire. http://www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/ma ... on-wolves/ As Smith said at the time "As far as I am concerned we have hit the lowest point, but sometimes you have to reach that to start climbing again," "The players have to make a choice. They can either go and sulk or stick with me and try to rectify things. The scoreboard rarely lies and we were comfortably second-best today." We went on to win the Challenge Cup later that season. Smith inherited a basket case without any glimmer of success since the early 90’s. He was out third coach in 7 or 8 months and didn’t have the benefit of a pre-season in that period. He walked in the door, to the demotion of the man who was to act as his assistant and got better results. We have had Powell as the coach elect since March(approx) of last year, months of planning and preparing for the squad he would have and could add to and take away. He had a full pre-season without a major international drain. Hit the ground running with 3 out of 3 and then the wheels have fell off. He has had 2 opportunities (I think) to have ‘mini pre-seasons’ when we don’t have fixtures, to hard-reset the team, which is actually quite important rather than just recovery into prep mid-week. Smith didn’t get that as he took us to Wembley. And yet now, we have regressed, week on week. I’m biased, because I thoroughly enjoyed Smith’s 2009-2016 era and I have a respect and loyalty to him, but it is incomparable between the impact of the two coaches. The most optimism I have felt since March is reading that Wane is hoping that getting our 5 guys into a different environment might help them to enjoy their rugby again and take it back to their club. I just hope Wane is right and he can get some spirit into those 5 guys and they can bring that back in to our team and use it as a springboard. I don’t want us to fail, not at all. But, I can’t help but watch on with agony as great players leave only to be replaced by journeymen, in the hope of progression.

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:16 am  

Captain Hook wrote:

The constant repetition of this may be doing wonders for your post count, but it isn’t doing much for your reputation.

Not particularly concerned about that chief tbh.

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:06 pm  

DallasMead2 wrote:

Not particularly concerned about that chief tbh.

can we just take it as read that it’s all Karl’s fault in your view to save you from having to repeat yourself?

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:36 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

can we just take it as read that it’s all Karl’s fault in your view to save you from having to repeat yourself?

Take whatever you like mate.

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:41 am  

DallasMead2 wrote:

Take whatever you like mate.

In which case I prefer “chief” to “mate” but “Captain” is best of all.

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:44 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

In which case I prefer “chief” to “mate” but “Captain” is best of all.

No worries chief captain.

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:49 pm  

DallasMead2 wrote:

No worries chief captain.

Even betterer.

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:41 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

Smith inherited a basket case without any glimmer of success since the early 90’s. He was out third coach in 7 or 8 months and didn’t have the benefit of a pre-season in that period.

He walked in the door, to the demotion of the man who was to act as his assistant and got better results. We have had Powell as the coach elect since March(approx) of last year, months of planning and preparing for the squad he would have and could add to and take away. He had a full pre-season without a major international drain. Hit the ground running with 3 out of 3 and then the wheels have fell off.

He has had 2 opportunities (I think) to have ‘mini pre-seasons’ when we don’t have fixtures, to hard-reset the team, which is actually quite important rather than just recovery into prep mid-week. Smith didn’t get that as he took us to Wembley. And yet now, we have regressed, week on week. I’m biased, because I thoroughly enjoyed Smith’s 2009-2016 era and I have a respect and loyalty to him, but it is incomparable between the impact of the two coaches.

I am also a hardcore Smith loyalist but he did inherit a different situation. He had a squad which was full of very talented players and had just had a bad coaching situation as Cullen's last year was a year too long especially given the other stuff he had to deal with at the time, and Jimmy Lowes was not an SL standard head coach. Powell has inherited a team that had gone stagnant and needed an overhaul.

If TS came back to coach us now, I doubt he would have the same impact he did in 2009.

However, its interesting to consider where we would be if we had just kept on with TS right through and not had Price or Powell. I think it was time for both parties to move on at the end of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had ended up with a better win-loss record since then if TS had stayed, than what we have had under Price and Powell.

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:40 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

I am also a hardcore Smith loyalist but he did inherit a different situation. He had a squad which was full of very talented players and had just had a bad coaching situation as Cullen's last year was a year too long especially given the other stuff he had to deal with at the time, and Jimmy Lowes was not an SL standard head coach. Powell has inherited a team that had gone stagnant and needed an overhaul.

If TS came back to coach us now, I doubt he would have the same impact he did in 2009.

However, its interesting to consider where we would be if we had just kept on with TS right through and not had Price or Powell. I think it was time for both parties to move on at the end of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had ended up with a better win-loss record since then if TS had stayed, than what we have had under Price and Powell.

In 2017 we were in the middle 8s after a dismal season. In 2018 we were in the Challenge Cup and Grand Finals. Do you think that if TS had stayed we would have had the same turnaround?

Re: Cooper to Wigan confirmed : Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:59 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

I am also a hardcore Smith loyalist but he did inherit a different situation. He had a squad which was full of very talented players and had just had a bad coaching situation as Cullen's last year was a year too long especially given the other stuff he had to deal with at the time, and Jimmy Lowes was not an SL standard head coach. Powell has inherited a team that had gone stagnant and needed an overhaul.

If TS came back to coach us now, I doubt he would have the same impact he did in 2009.

However, its interesting to consider where we would be if we had just kept on with TS right through and not had Price or Powell. I think it was time for both parties to move on at the end of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had ended up with a better win-loss record since then if TS had stayed, than what we have had under Price and Powell.

Undoubtedly the right time for him to move on.

Re: squad comparisons, 2009 was very similar but I think people are underestimating the value of the current squad. At the point of signing, Widdop and Williams were star halfbacks. Stars. Ratchford, Cooper, Clark, Currie, Philbin are/until recently were regulars in England squads. Hughes, Charnley, King and Matautia are in and around rep squads in recent history, but not regulars.

That’s every starting squad number other than 5 Ashton and 12 Holmes.

Ashton, Walker, Holmes and Mulhearn have been in Knights squads. From number 1 a 19, every one of them is or was recently an international standard player outside of Bullock, Davis and Magoulias. Powell signed 2 of those three.

I can’t accept that these players have lost all of their ability, I won’t accept that they have lost all of the lessons that they picked up playing with and for international standard coaches and players. The squad is more than good enough to compete. Can the coach not get the best out of them, or is it to be believed that there has been an ability and effort vacuum?