: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:50 am  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

I will answer your question with another question; have you ever seen a Warrington team in SL so desperate to defend their line, scramble back, have good line speed and a general tenacity in defence?

Smith seems to have changed the way the players set and get back into position, each player was facing the ruck, then looking right then looking left over their shoulder whilst getting on side then checking again when back on side. It was virtually synchronised with all their head movements. Never seen it like that before!

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:46 pm  

Latchford Wolvesfan wrote:

Another question JWP, ive taken on board what you said and it seems that your blaming 3 others players aswell as Penny, i would like your opinion as to why teams are getting no succsess down the left channel in the last 2 games, If what you say is indeed true and im not saying it isn't surely teams would still target the left, seen as King, Louis and Monaghan still play there, yet no tries have been scored, why do you think that is, has Smith already had a major impact or has something else changed

You've already had answers, but I'll give you one more.

This week, as mentioned Smith has worked hard on the line, a new approach at defending, if Penny had played, he could equally have been part of this impreeive regime. The week before, they had enough joy (Quins) elsewhere. If you find a hole, keep going back, they did, a dozen times unfortunately.

Now, I know what your implying, that Penny is out and tries haven't been scored on the left, which they have. Penny went off against Saints at level scores, we kept conceding, we got trounced at home to Catalans, tries down the left, Wakefield - tries down the left. Go back to last year, Penny was dropped for spells, and guess what happened ? We conceded tries down the left.

Turn your point around - Have we had Penny in the side, and beaten sides without them exposing him & King ? Yes, we have - Leeds at home last year etc. You'll have games were sides can't get to your weakness, or you manage to stop them, or they find another weakness etc. Barge overs has always been another of ours, two & three men in attendance and someone pushes over from 1-2m out for example.

You've just got it into your head, that Penny is the problem, which he isn't, and you can't get past that, so you make stuff up. He plays on an area of the pitch that has been problematic, and seen various combinations tried, and exposed, for exactly the same reasons, Penny & King, King & PJ, Grix & King and on and on.

You also say that Penny is poor for the reserves, his defence is still weak etc, well, apart from Quins away, you can't have seen much of him, as your posting on here every Saturday afternoon for most of the afternoon, so maybe your time would've been better spent actually going and seeing him and giving us a more informed opinion.

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:56 pm  

JWP wrote:

You've already had answers, but I'll give you one more.

This week, as mentioned Smith has worked hard on the line, a new approach at defending, if Penny had played, he could equally have been part of this impreeive regime. The week before, they had enough joy (Quins) elsewhere. If you find a hole, keep going back, they did, a dozen times unfortunately.

Now, I know what your implying, that Penny is out and tries haven't been scored on the left, which they have. Penny went off against Saints at level scores, we kept conceding, we got trounced at home to Catalans, tries down the left, Wakefield - tries down the left. Go back to last year, Penny was dropped for spells, and guess what happened ? We conceded tries down the left.

Turn your point around - Have we had Penny in the side, and beaten sides without them exposing him & King ? Yes, we have - Leeds at home last year etc. You'll have games were sides can't get to your weakness, or you manage to stop them, or they find another weakness etc. Barge overs has always been another of ours, two & three men in attendance and someone pushes over from 1-2m out for example.

You've just got it into your head, that Penny is the problem, which he isn't, and you can't get past that, so you make stuff up. He plays on an area of the pitch that has been problematic, and seen various combinations tried, and exposed, for exactly the same reasons, Penny & King, King & PJ, Grix & King and on and on.

You also say that Penny is poor for the reserves, his defence is still weak etc, well, apart from Quins away, you can't have seen much of him, as your posting on here every Saturday afternoon for most of the afternoon, so maybe your time would've been better spent actually going and seeing him and giving us a more informed opinion.

I am led to believe he hasn't seen Penny play in the reserves.

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:57 pm  

JWP wrote:

Now, I know what your implying, that Penny is out and tries haven't been scored on the left, which they have. Penny went off against Saints at level scores, we kept conceding, we got trounced at home to Catalans, tries down the left, Wakefield - tries down the left. Go back to last year, Penny was dropped for spells, and guess what happened ? We conceded tries down the left.

You've just got it into your head, that Penny is the problem, which he isn't, and you can't get past that, so you make stuff up. He plays on an area of the pitch that has been problematic, and seen various combinations tried, and exposed, for exactly the same reasons, Penny & King, King & PJ, Grix & King and on and on.

You also say that Penny is poor for the reserves, his defence is still weak etc, well, apart from Quins away, you can't have seen much of him, as your posting on here every Saturday afternoon for most of the afternoon, so maybe your time would've been better spent actually going and seeing him and giving us a more informed opinion.

We only conceded 1 try down the left against Catalans and 1 against Wakefield but let's forget that because i don't want to be splitting hairs all afternoon.
I don't go all the reserve matches but ive seen Penny play twice for the reserves this year and i wouldn't say he was a good defender, i understand he needs more experience and so on.
Early in the year (after the Hull friendly) i agreed with you that Penny looked well in defence and had bulked up and became stronger so it's not that im against Penny or want him to fail, if he plays well i have no problem in saying so but i feel his defence needs to improve before he get's back in the 1st team.

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:59 pm  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

I am led to believe he hasn't seen Penny play in the reserves.

Don't know who led you there but they were wrong to do so.

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:02 pm  

Latchford Wolvesfan wrote:

We only conceded 1 try down the left against Catalans and 1 against Wakefield but let's forget that because i don't want to be splitting hairs all afternoon.
I don't go all the reserve matches but ive seen Penny play twice for the reserves this year and i wouldn't say he was a good defender, i understand he needs more experience and so on.
Early in the year (after the Hull friendly) i agreed with you that Penny looked well in defence and had bulked up and became stronger so it's not that im against Penny or want him to fail, if he plays well i have no problem in saying so but i feel his defence needs to improve before he get's back in the 1st team.

Go on then Wayne Bennett; explain that sweeping generalisation.

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:03 pm  

Latchford Wolvesfan wrote:

We only conceded 1 try down the left against Catalans and 1 against Wakefield but let's forget that because i don't want to be splitting hairs all afternoon.
I don't go all the reserve matches but ive seen Penny play twice for the reserves this year and i wouldn't say he was a good defender, i understand he needs more experience and so on.
Early in the year (after the Hull friendly) i agreed with you that Penny looked well in defence and had bulked up and became stronger so it's not that im against Penny or want him to fail, if he plays well i have no problem in saying so but i feel his defence needs to improve before he get's back in the 1st team.

Name me wingers you have seen, who have destroyed Penny in a game, ie, run over the top of him, handed him off, bumped him off etc in either the first team or the 21's that gives you the belief that his defence is bad ?

Forget where people have dove in the corner, because he's been caught 5m off the wing etc, as we've covered this, it's the left side defence that's the problem, like it caught King out against Catalans and numerous times last year when he replaced Penny on the wing.

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:04 pm  

Latchford Wolvesfan wrote:

Don't know who led you there but they were wrong to do so.

Which games did you got to?

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:05 pm  

mark_m wrote:

Go on then Wayne Bennett; explain that sweeping generalisation.

His positional play isn't great, this has been evident in both reserve games that i have seen.

Wakefield and Harlequins.

: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:09 pm  

Latchford Wolvesfan wrote:

His positional play isn't great, this has been evident in both reserve games that i have seen.

Wakefield and Harlequins.

That's not defence, that's team organisation and knowing your role within that. He's never played in an organised Warrington side, well, in fact he has, two games, last year Saint away, Leeds home. We all thought Jimmy had fixed us, we defended so well, beat Leeds, ran Saints to the brink, how many tries were scored down the left in those games ? How many times was Penny exposed ?

Kevin Penny is more than capable of fitting into a structured Warrington Wolves side, now & again, he'll make an error, all players will. We conceded two tries on Sunday, somebody will be to blame, there's always a root cause, I'm confident he'll be more than capable when he gets his chance.