Re: Best Wire Coach - not the 'transport' type. : Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:00 pm  

Van de Velde was a dreadful coach.

He had the charisma of a walnut, and a hairline to match.

Re: Best Wire Coach - not the 'transport' type. : Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:08 am  

This thread goes to show how stats can be quite misleading. Sally’s post is superb, and I largely agree. I’ve already admitted my conscious bias towards Cullen, but his win rate was actually pretty bad. 48.9%. Granted the start and end of his tenure would have impacted that.

Lowes again, I think is more of a bias tilt. His win rate wasn’t actually as bad as it felt at the time, at 43.8%.

Interestingly, Plange has the lowest win percentage at 25, Anderson at 33.5. But the “feel” was the complete contrast. Anderson’s era was absolutely dire.

Up to date, Powell is 44.7, just behind Cullen, Dorohy (50) and Bowden (52.5). For those interested, Powell’s 2022 would have saw him second last at 32%.

Smith, Price and Barrow all cleared 60%, with 66.4, 63.2 and 62.9 respectively. Smith would have been 70+ without the 2017 catastrophe.

Re: Best Wire Coach - not the 'transport' type. : Mon Jul 10, 2023 9:14 am  

There's only one statistic that counts - regular, sustained success, in the tangible form of silverware in the cupboard.

In the eras we have spoken of, the successful teams have been the most ruthless in their pursuit of success. In the 80s Wigan went out and bought the best, Bradford revamped their entire structure and brand, Saints and Leeds established a production line of talent and hired and sacked coaches without emotion.

Us? Plange, Anderson, Dorahy, Van de Velde. Coaching non-entities. Even during the halycon days of TS we threw money at the project and when the conveyor belt of overseas talent dried up, their was no plan B.

Re: Best Wire Coach - not the 'transport' type. : Mon Jul 10, 2023 3:54 pm  

Impressed Sally.

Agree about TS.
Even though we won the CC with Price, I still have nightmares about his style of play. There were only 3 or 4 matches where I could say ' I enjoyed that'. The semi against Hull was one and the pre season match against Brisbane (?) was another.
Seemed simply bereft of ideas.

Anderson was a complete disaster, as was Lowes.
I was suprised it went so badly for the latter, but clearly not up to the job of head coach. It just emphasizes how good TS was for us.
I didn't want Dorahy, and I think Plange was unfortuate. Wrong place at the wrong time.
I'd put Johnno at 2 and either Cull or DVDV at 3.

Re: Best Wire Coach - not the 'transport' type. : Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:55 pm  

I definitely think personal bias plays in to it, Lowes should have been above Plange in my ranking but I really disliked him, whereas I thought Plange seemed like a decent guy who was handed a hospital pass taking over that team in mid season.

I can see a case for Johnson at 2. I tried to be extra critical in my analysis of Johnson to counter my bias towards him as one of my all time favourite Wire personalities. In the early Johnson era we went through some rough seasons when we were in the lower half of the league and we were frustratingly inconsistent. He managed to cover up some disappointing league seasons by winning trophies (Lancashire Cup and Regal Trophy) and getting to Wembley. Thinking back, there was more of a feel good factor about winning those trophies in an inconsistent season than there was about winning the Challenge Cup under Price!

I also wonder if I was a bit harsh by saying some of the rugby we played under Johnson wasn't great. We played in winter on bad pitches so inevitably that had an impact on the style, and we did have some nice tricks and runarounds with the halfbacks and Mike Gregory or later Kelly Shelford. And the 1993/94 season was a wonderful time, especially with Davies winning Man of Steel and Harris breaking into the team and a young Sculthorpe coming up the ranks too. A great era of hope when we could see the first cracking of the Wigan reign of terror.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Best Wire Coach - not the 'transport' type. : Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:57 pm  

fez1 wrote:

Impressed Sally.

Agree about TS.
Even though we won the CC with Price, I still have nightmares about his style of play. There were only 3 or 4 matches where I could say ' I enjoyed that'. The semi against Hull was one and the pre season match against Brisbane (?) was another.
Seemed simply bereft of ideas.

Anderson was a complete disaster, as was Lowes.
I was suprised it went so badly for the latter, but clearly not up to the job of head coach. It just emphasizes how good TS was for us.
I didn't want Dorahy, and I think Plange was unfortuate. Wrong place at the wrong time.
I'd put Johnno at 2 and either Cull or DVDV at 3.

brissy was under smith

Re: Best Wire Coach - not the 'transport' type. : Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:27 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

brissy was under smith

So that means it's down to 2-3 matches with SP!