Re: Smith Out : Sat May 27, 2017 1:09 pm  

Bigted wrote:

None of those coaches mentioned have won anything

Ohhhh ok then so let's just stick with smith whose last trophy of note was in 2012 when we had a team who should have won everything at a canter to today's team who many predicted was a particularly poor squad that tony smith has assembled he got Paul Cullen's team to win the cc

Going on that kind of logic it means we're looking for a handful of coaches and we can disregard nrl winners as they have not won the super league too....

Are you saying that based on how Powell has done at castleford it would not be a fair guess that given the backing smith has had he would not have us playing better rugby and in with a real chance of winning the gf or at least as good a chance as smith yet he has not won anything wane had not won anything as a coach taking over at Wigan yet that worked out ok for them ....

We should really be targeting a coach that has not been relegated or taken one of super leagues best funded club to the possibility of playing for their super league survival did the special ones successes save him from getting the boot from Chelsea for them languishing at the bottom of the table under him ???

Re: Smith Out : Sat May 27, 2017 2:36 pm  

In years gone by Tony Smith was pleased to say that he leaves it to players to work out how they play. Its clear that the present group of players either cannot or will not do that or that there are disagreements within the team on how they play. If they cannot work out how to play a style needs to be imposed from above that they can buy into

We have two "first choice" halves who cannot run with the ball and whose passing is slow and inaccurate...and we do not see the centres receive any ball.
Teams have worked out the "scoot a thon tactics" and are allowing Warrington to make yards up the middle safe in the knowledge that the ball will never leave the middle channel
This is all tactics and it must be boring to play...its boring to watch. It needs to be changed - if you watch Cas they attack all over the field. So Agar and Smith need to make changes and take some choices out of the hands of the players. There is also a low skills culture...too many players cannot catch and pass. They just look bored and frustrated
In my view...bring in additional coaches - to improve the skills and culture. There are less coaches at the club than our more successful years and it looks like there are not enough ideas. If Smith has to go so be it.. If Agar has to go, he continues a career of at best mediocrity but we are seeing a coaching staff that's run out of energy and ideas

[Winslade's Offload]

Re: Smith Out : Sat May 27, 2017 4:05 pm  

matthew wrote:

In years gone by Tony Smith was pleased to say that he leaves it to players to work out how they play. Its clear that the present group of players either cannot or will not do that or that there are disagreements within the team on how they play. If they cannot work out how to play a style needs to be imposed from above that they can buy into

We have two "first choice" halves who cannot run with the ball and whose passing is slow and inaccurate...and we do not see the centres receive any ball.
Teams have worked out the "scoot a thon tactics" and are allowing Warrington to make yards up the middle safe in the knowledge that the ball will never leave the middle channel
This is all tactics and it must be boring to play...its boring to watch. It needs to be changed - if you watch Cas they attack all over the field. So Agar and Smith need to make changes and take some choices out of the hands of the players. There is also a low skills culture...too many players cannot catch and pass. They just look bored and frustrated
In my view...bring in additional coaches - to improve the skills and culture. There are less coaches at the club than our more successful years and it looks like there are not enough ideas. If Smith has to go so be it.. If Agar has to go, he continues a career of at best mediocrity but we are seeing a coaching staff that's run out of energy and ideas

Well, it's a plausible analysis. Back in the days of Monas, Morley, Bret, Higham etc etc they probably didn't need to be told what to do with the ball. There was a nucleus of very professional, skilled (if ageing) rl players. Perhaps TS is not giving this younger, less talented and experienced team sufficient direction.

Scooting was still a part of that previous culture of course, as we saw time and again from Monas. But the limp forward displays (other than Hill) that we now see need to be compensated by scooting, because otherwise we would never get back up the field again. But should we be depending on Matty scooting to make up for a deficient pack ? Methinks not - sort out the pack, get in a forward coach if need be - even that guy who just lost his job at Saints.

Why everything is going down the middle channel is a mystery to me. I don't understand it, particularly as I can see the Wire U16's and U19's moving the ball at speed. It's not brain surgery is it ?

Re: Smith Out : Sat May 27, 2017 5:18 pm  

All this talk of only playing down the middle as got me thinking, what is it that Briers is coaching, the bloke was awesome in his playing days and i know you cant coach how he played but surely he can ciach attack??

Re: Smith Out : Sat May 27, 2017 10:43 pm  

Dezzies_right_hook wrote:

Ohhhh ok then so let's just stick with smith whose last trophy of note was in 2012 when we had a team who should have won everything at a canter to today's team who many predicted was a particularly poor squad that tony smith has assembled he got Paul Cullen's team to win the cc

What is interesting is how when TS had the team that should have won everything, Brian McDermott was actually winning everything instead.

Now the general consensus at the time was that Brian McDermott was not an elite coach, because ANYBODY could win all those trophies with Sinfield, Peacock, McGuire, Burrow, Hall, Hardaker, Leuluai, Webb, Buderus, JJB etc.

So which was it....did Leeds win more trophies than Warrington because they had a superior squad, of players who knew how to perform when it counted, which Warrington didn't.

Or was Brian McDermott the top coach in the game, able to get the most out of a more limited squad and outperform a superior Warrington.

It's also interesting to see that Leeds are doing the best out of the traditional big clubs this season. If Castleford and Salford slip up in the playoffs and Leeds end up being champions, will we hear again, ANYBODY could win the Grand Final with this Leeds squad...

Re: Smith Out : Sun May 28, 2017 7:06 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

What is interesting is how when TS had the team that should have won everything, Brian McDermott was actually winning everything instead.

Now the general consensus at the time was that Brian McDermott was not an elite coach, because ANYBODY could win all those trophies with Sinfield, Peacock, McGuire, Burrow, Hall, Hardaker, Leuluai, Webb, Buderus, JJB etc.

So which was it....did Leeds win more trophies than Warrington because they had a superior squad, of players who knew how to perform when it counted, which Warrington didn't.

Or was Brian McDermott the top coach in the game, able to get the most out of a more limited squad and outperform a superior Warrington.

It's also interesting to see that Leeds are doing the best out of the traditional big clubs this season. If Castleford and Salford slip up in the playoffs and Leeds end up being champions, will we hear again, ANYBODY could win the Grand Final with this Leeds squad...

It was a case of peaking at the right times, and treating the key games like a cup final. It's significant that the Rhinos have one a lot more GF's than hub caps.

Re: Smith Out : Sun May 28, 2017 3:36 pm  

JonnoTheGreat wrote:

I know Warrington fans tell anyone who'll listen every season is going to be the 'year of the wolf' regarding you lot being Super League Champions, hence the birth of that 'its always your year' chant everyone sings at you, but it was always unlikely to happen this season.

Give Tony Smith a break. He's a proven, quality coach who has taken you to glories you'd not seen in many a year and will build a side to challenge the top sides again.

With all due respect, Wire are hardly a Wigan, a St Helens or a Leeds where standards are sky high. Given what he's done in the past, he will surely deliver success again given time.

The whingers, moaners and cry-arsers take note.

You're chatting total macca, kid. The "always your year" guff comes from Stevo and other pundits tipping Wire and Hull to win SL every year for about ten years running. For some reason it stuck with us and not 'ull.

We've given Smith more than a break. I think he's brought on a lot of the criticism himself. We once had a very good side who played the best rugby in the league and now have the odd very good player but a bang average rest of the team and we play basic rugby. All done under his watch. We overachieved big time last season so he will get more slack than he would do but the slide backwards we've made since 2013 doesn't look to be changing.

Re: Smith Out : Tue May 30, 2017 4:35 am  

Ffs just listened to more of your bullshlt.You + your buddy are coaching them ffs.Same old excuses after every bad defeat.Just eff off.

Re: Smith Out : Tue May 30, 2017 5:16 am  

smith has his excuses already for huddersfield, it may sound something like this, er yes brough is a good player he kicked us to death today as their players had more energy than us due to having a week off,we still havent got over the wigan game yet,plus we got a drubbing the last two games so its taken all our energy,we trained well though if thats any good,but we look forward to the next game and we will put things right, he must have a book full of excuses but seems to use the same one each week.

Re: Smith Out : Tue May 30, 2017 5:56 am  

grifter wrote:

smith has his excuses already for huddersfield, it may sound something like this, er yes brough is a good player he kicked us to death today as their players had more energy than us due to having a week off,we still havent got over the wigan game yet,plus we got a drubbing the last two games so its taken all our energy,we trained well though if thats any good,but we look forward to the next game and we will put things right, he must have a book full of excuses but seems to use the same one each week.

He is the master of post match defeat excuses. Remember he coached Huddersfield when they went almost winless in a season.