Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:52 am  

vastman wrote:

On paper, Warrington is the better team and were we to play each other 20 times this season I would bet on Warrington winning most games.

Actually, when I saw the two line-ups last weekend, I kind of fancied Wakefield to beat us. Yes, we were missing a few players, but to be honest, we haven't played very well this season whoever has been in the 17, so I'm not sure how relevant that was. And I don't think that either the Wire team or fans underestimated Wakey. We have lost far too many such games for it to be regarded as any kind of shock or surprise anymore. Fans are always insular and naturally want to vent about their own side, but I don't think anyone would argue that Wakey were not the better side last weekend and fully deserved the win. Sets up an interesting rematch, anyway.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:28 pm  

The Speculator wrote:

Actually, when I saw the two line-ups last weekend, I kind of fancied Wakefield to beat us.

Yes, I said the same before the game on the actual match thread on here.

I think there are too many of our fans (especially those who inhabit Facebook) who think we are far better than we actually are.

I've said before, the best plan this season is to lower expectations and just enjoy the ride - Performances and results like last Saturday will certainly happen again, we just need to show improvement & a better looking team ethic come season's end for this year to be a success for me.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:36 pm  

vastman wrote:

What I don't get is why the games that are lost are always down to Warrington/any top team playing badly and never down to Wakefield/Toulouse/HKR just being in better form on the day and thus making it a bad game.

Because that's how sport works. You will always get fans of the losing team saying how poorly they played, and fans of the winning team saying how great they played. If a role reversal of the score last week happened in the Challenge Cup this weekend, I have no doubt that Wakefield fans would bemoan their team's performance and not give credit to Warrington.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:28 pm  

WireFanatic III wrote:

Because that's how sport works. You will always get fans of the losing team saying how poorly they played, and fans of the winning team saying how great they played. If a role reversal of the score last week happened in the Challenge Cup this weekend, I have no doubt that Wakefield fans would bemoan their team's performance and not give credit to Warrington.

Exactly.

I don't think the frustration is caused by a one off defeat to Wakefield who deserved the win. I think it's caused by 1) going into the season with a known deficiency in the pack. 2) us being poor/average for 6+ years now and 3) us not seeming to have got any better so far under Powell. 4) some big name players not delivering.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:14 pm  

Jack Napier wrote:

In his last season before he went to Australia most of his starts were at loose forward with most of his appearances coming as a bench prop.

The only reason he didn't start as prop in that season (2013) was due to our abundance of huge forwards.

This was a time when the man-mountain Waterhouse was playing SR/LF. We had Harrison and Westwood playing SR too, all of which would probably be playing prop in our current team.

So I'd say back then, I'd say he was a prop who was played in other roles due to his inexperience and squad quality. I can't remember him ever being seen as a SR.

This one line could almost move a man to tears.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:17 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

Fafita didn’t say he was a backrower, I did.

Ok Cooper has transitioned into a prop, and a very good one, but unlike Warmsley, doesn’t seem to have the gravitas. Warmsley size carries the weight balance that is lacking when partnered with a transitional prop like Matty Lees. Cooper and Hughes in comparison?

Cooper was always a backrow:/loose forward who struggled to get a regular start, heads off down under and get huge raps with his offloads when playing in a big pack. He’s now playing in a light pack. It’s all relative.

My comments are my own and what I see.

Packs win games

Funny how there's something at the back of mind, ah yes, that's it - can he play prop?
A rhetorical question in Cooper's case.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:45 pm  

MorePlaymakersNeeded wrote:

This one line could almost move a man to tears.

it was a different time my friend, the financial landscape has shifted significantly.

Have a look at wigan's squad around then, they had three (count em 3) ex melbourne storm players in their first team at that point.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:54 pm  

Cooper…I did say backrower (not 2nd rower), transitioned into a prop.
Cooper was playing at 13. Being a third mobile prop or loose, makes no difference, my point is about pack size.

3 Cooper’s playing for Wire at the same time would absolutely smash the current SL out of sight, (there does seem to be a prop drought, only Saints Huddersfield and Catalan seem to have the prop cards).
2 Cooper’s would have us dominant or on par with the current top 3 clubs this season .
1 Copper with another light prop/backrower…well here we are.

Cooper is a great prop, no question about it. Packs win games, not wether Cooper is classed as an out and out prop, or as I say, a transitional prop, somewhere in between a prop and a backrower.
The weight in the pack is so important and can help carry light backs to do their thing, but my angle has always been a big good un, always beats a good small un.

The reason we smashed Saints in 2019, is because our team across from wing to wing, out sized them. So much was the difference, Saints made error upon error.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:04 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

Cooper…I did say backrower (not 2nd rower), transitioned into a prop.
Cooper was playing at 13. Being a third mobile prop or loose, makes no difference, my point is about pack size.

3 Cooper’s playing for Wire at the same time would absolutely smash the current SL out of sight, (there does seem to be a prop drought, only Saints Huddersfield and Catalan seem to have the prop cards).
2 Cooper’s would have us dominant or on par with the current top 3 clubs this season .
1 Copper with another light prop/backrower…well here we are.

Cooper is a great prop, no question about it. Packs win games, not wether Cooper is classed as an out and out prop, or as I say, a transitional prop, somewhere in between a prop and a backrower.
The weight in the pack is so important and can help carry light backs to do their thing, but my angle has always been a big good un, always beats a good small un.

The reason we smashed Saints in 2019, is because our team across from wing to wing, out sized them. So much was the difference, Saints made error upon error.

I'm gonna call your bluff on this one.

Can you please back up that statement, with evidence, and please show your working out.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:05 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

Here's your litmus test on this one, how many people were supporting of antony england? he ticks a few recruitment boxes as he was as big if not bigger than walmsley, and he came from the championship, which as you will see lately is a requirement for the usual suspects complaining about poor recruitment from the nrl, but they dont like it when we try to sign players from the championship.

a lot of these complaints and viewpoints are cyclical, people saying we shouldn't be tieing up money in the halves, we should spend marquee on a prop, couple years down the line when we still haven't won a gf, why are we wasting it on a prop?...

You should be a politician!
Anthony England…the rule is a ‘good’ big un always beats a good small un.

However, it does make me have some concerns about Harrison when you reflect on Anthony England, he’s a big unit, but another lower league gamble. Still, unlike England, Harrison has made waves in the championship, few had even heard of England.