Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:47 pm  

Are we settled on Fitzpatrick being the recruiter then? Seems to be a variety of opinions on this, but the only thing on the record to my knowledge are the statements from both Powell and Fitzpatrick back in 2021 when they confirmed Powell would have full responsibility for recruitment and retention.

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:56 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

I think the interesting thing to watch with Leigh, is can they maintain these standards long term, or is this a one season bounce, which most clubs have had at some point in the last 20 years?

The only clubs who seem to maintain any consistency are those with good academy systems and its been almost non existent for any side reliant on outside recruitment to find consistent success.

Yeah this is relevant to Wires71's point as well about those players playing well for Leigh. Lots of the players we would class as being overall disappointing signings had a spell where they looked good for us, before they start treading water. We'll see what happens with Leigh - are they going to establish themselves as a new force, or will this be like when Widnes came up under Neil Kelly and had a good first season or like when Salford have had the odd good season and then fallen away.

Also on the academy point: the clubs that always win Grand Finals are the clubs with the best record of producing quality players through their own academy who can be top SL players for a decade or so. But those only account for a few of their first team. They also have to recruit from outside like everybody else, they recruit from other SL clubs and the NRL, and they have a better hit rate of good signings than we do.

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:25 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote: Are we settled on Fitzpatrick being the recruiter then? Seems to be a variety of opinions on this, but the only thing on the record to my knowledge are the statements from both Powell and Fitzpatrick back in 2021 when they confirmed Powell would have full responsibility for recruitment and retention. KF likes telling the world he was the genius behind the Ashton signing. He was tipped off to him by a scout (George Williams' Dad), went to watch him and then dealt directly with the Swinton owner to agree the deal. So he was responsible then in 2019. Source https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... n-26381995

Barbed Wire wrote: Are we settled on Fitzpatrick being the recruiter then? Seems to be a variety of opinions on this, but the only thing on the record to my knowledge are the statements from both Powell and Fitzpatrick back in 2021 when they confirmed Powell would have full responsibility for recruitment and retention. KF likes telling the world he was the genius behind the Ashton signing. He was tipped off to him by a scout (George Williams' Dad), went to watch him and then dealt directly with the Swinton owner to agree the deal. So he was responsible then in 2019. Source https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... n-26381995

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:17 pm  

Wires71 wrote: KF likes telling the world he was the genius behind the Ashton signing. He was tipped off to him by a scout (George Williams' Dad), went to watch him and then dealt directly with the Swinton owner to agree the deal. So he was responsible then in 2019. Source https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... n-26381995 I appreciate that, but that tale pre-dates the article from April 2021 in which Powell and KFP confirm that Powell will have “total control” over recruiting, the article goes on to add that Powell was brought in and announced so early so he could make the decision on whether to keep Toby King, Blake Austin etc. before the May deadline for out of contract players to talk with other clubs.

Wires71 wrote: KF likes telling the world he was the genius behind the Ashton signing. He was tipped off to him by a scout (George Williams' Dad), went to watch him and then dealt directly with the Swinton owner to agree the deal. So he was responsible then in 2019. Source https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... n-26381995 I appreciate that, but that tale pre-dates the article from April 2021 in which Powell and KFP confirm that Powell will have “total control” over recruiting, the article goes on to add that Powell was brought in and announced so early so he could make the decision on whether to keep Toby King, Blake Austin etc. before the May deadline for out of contract players to talk with other clubs.

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:21 pm  

Well if KFP signed Ashton and since then it’s been all DPs doing then it’s fair to say all is forgiven KFP….get rid of Powell and get your hands back on recruitment.

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:44 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Well if KFP signed Ashton and since then it’s been all DPs doing then it’s fair to say all is forgiven KFP….get rid of Powell and get your hands back on recruitment.

I wouldn’t go that far, we’ve had considerable failures both sides of Powell’s appointment. I think it’s further evidence that a Director of Rugby would be a wise investment. The same person recruiting the coaches and players that fit the puzzle that the club is trying to put together.

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:45 pm  

I'd imagine in a salary capped sport, it's almost impossible that one man has total control over recruitment.

I'd reckon it would have to be the case of the coach & director of Rugby being in very close discussion - Coach tells DofR what type of style he's looking to play, gives a long list of players he'd like in order to play that style and then DofR goes off and plays fantasy football, compiling a squad from the coach's list, while keeping within confines of the cap.

No disrespect to the individuals concerned, but I'm 99.9% sure that the likes of Russell or Minikin wouldn't have been anywhere near the top of Powell's wanted list - They merely fitted within the salary cap.

If you look throughout SL, most squads are padded out with very average players, so ultimately its quite difficult to pin any problems on one person - you could nail the coach for not making the most of his squad, but can also blame the DofR for not signing the right players from the list, and also the club in general for not finding the best youngsters to feed the first team from the academy.

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:00 pm  

Wasn’t the recruitment of Russell just based on Ratchford telling Powell that Russell was looking for a job? Now I don’t think Russell is a poor signing for the money he is on (reportedly peanuts) but he should be playing as a last resort and the wing spot taken up by blooding an academy prospect - Josh Lynch/Jack Darbyshire.

I don’t buy this nonsense that fans would get on the back of the youngster should they make a lot of errors. Some fans might but I think on the whole fans would see the bigger picture.

I was hoping for a coach with more bottle in this regard but Powell’s tactics are frequently cowardly.

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:40 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Wasn’t the recruitment of Russell just based on Ratchford telling Powell that Russell was looking for a job? Now I don’t think Russell is a poor signing for the money he is on (reportedly peanuts) but he should be playing as a last resort and the wing spot taken up by blooding an academy prospect - Josh Lynch/Jack Darbyshire.

I don’t buy this nonsense that fans would get on the back of the youngster should they make a lot of errors. Some fans might but I think on the whole fans would see the bigger picture.

I was hoping for a coach with more bottle in this regard but Powell’s tactics are frequently cowardly.

Genuine question. If, in the future, we become, as seems possible, exempt from relegation, do you reckon the fans would put up with 3 or 4 years of finishing bottom or thereabouts, if it meant we could blood far more youngsters and then eventually have a side which can be successful, if that's what it had to take?

Re: How Important Is The Coach? : Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:52 pm  

If success was guaranteed at the end of 3/4 rubbish seasons then yes I think everyone would snap your hand off. We’ve had 67 of them, another 4 wouldn’t hurt.