Re: what positions are our weakest? : Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:20 pm  

Kevin Turvey wrote:

Indeed, and I haven't seen one this year and can't see one in next years squad unless Burgess is going to get back on the field.

Best candidate from what I've seen seems to be Walker...

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:19 pm  

karetaker wrote:

We have not had one since Briers. I know Morley was the captain but Briers was the voice.

Completely agree. Morley was a superb leader of men. Physically he was intimidating, the kind of guy that when he arrives at training, the rest of the squad try to impress.

Briers knows rugby inside and out and steered the team. When we were good, he was behind it. One thing is for certain, if he was playing a few weeks ago in the Saints play off game, we wouldn’t be kicking for goal 30 yards out when they are down to 12 men, missing one of their best forwards. We had a chance to put the ball in the corner and take some energy out of their tanks, and a huge opportunity to post points, and came away with 2 and gave them a breather.

Williams and Dufty are gifted athletes, and Williams in particular is a great competitor, but compare smarts with Briers and Hodgson and you can see how much we have regressed.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 10, 2023 5:39 pm  

I can understand your comments about Williams and agree to an extent, but as he's got the England shirt perhaps it represents where our league is currently compared to past years.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:09 pm  

fez1 wrote:

I can understand your comments about Williams and agree to an extent, but as he's got the England shirt perhaps it represents where our league is currently compared to past years.

I think rugby league is obsessed with the athleticism, it’s not just Williams. The creativity is left out, as a rule, in the selection of juniors. Players can pass off both hands, can run, fend and step. Fine. But the genuine creativity is just phased out.

The whole aim of the game is to manipulate numbers and use that space. That’s why the block plays became the standard feature of every single team from under 9’s and over. Teams play to bend the line, catch a defender on the wrong side of the ruck and play a mini game of 4 v 3, or shift the ball with block plays hoping for a defender to switch off and get a 3 vs 2 on the edge. Rinse and repeat for 80 minutes. Yet we have that number advantage, we have the field position, have the momentum, and kick for two. Madness.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:19 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

I think rugby league is obsessed with the athleticism, it’s not just Williams. The creativity is left out, as a rule, in the selection of juniors. Players can pass off both hands, can run, fend and step. Fine. But the genuine creativity is just phased out.

When i was a kid, the first game of RL i ever got to see was a Widnes one (as my grandad used to play for them).

It was Bradford northern at naughton park, in horrible mud... tony myler chipped the ball over a scrum as soon as the ball had come out, ran around.. caught it... flicked an inside pass to Alan Tait, who then flicked it to Offiah, who ran a long arc around the poor fullback, who knew less than me as to what was going on infront of him.

i had never seen anything like it and i was hooked.

i wonder what the youngsters of today have to watch and get excited about.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Wed Oct 11, 2023 8:40 pm  

To be fair I think some of that flair still exists. I was really impressed with Wigan last year with Field and French looking like they were playing touch rugby at times. I haven't seen as many Wigan games this year but the ones I have seen there has been a few times I have seen plays that I have been impressed with.

When a team is full of confidence that is when those plays happen. I will never forget Briers kicking cross field to Riley (I think it was Riley) in his own half in a challenge cup final. That was a team that had confidence in their ability to defend and in a team that looked like they enjoyed defending. If the play didn't come off then so be it.

We are miles away from that so maybe it looks like the rest of the league is the same but I am not sure it is. I reckon youngsters that are fans of Wigan and Catalan fans might have a similar view to the one had a naughton park.
And to add. As life wears you down you will never have the wide eyes innocent view of the world again. When I was growing up I only remember the good things like the odd Phil Blake try with only one boot but I forget the countless god awful matches at wilderspool on a Sunday afternoon when the most exciting thing was watching a train pull up in the corner so the train driver could watch the match.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:21 pm  

morleys_deckchair wrote:

When i was a kid, the first game of RL i ever got to see was a Widnes one (as my grandad used to play for them).

It was Bradford northern at naughton park, in horrible mud... tony myler chipped the ball over a scrum as soon as the ball had come out, ran around.. caught it... flicked an inside pass to Alan Tait, who then flicked it to Offiah, who ran a long arc around the poor fullback, who knew less than me as to what was going on infront of him.

i had never seen anything like it and i was hooked.

i wonder what the youngsters of today have to watch and get excited about.

Well it isn't yardage, holding down in the tackle, percentage plays for sure. Mind you I hear the home attendance is up 25% this year so maybe they do.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:37 pm  

We have suddenly gone from "our weakest position" to why is rugby not as exciting. Well ... for me it is all about defences ... they are so much better. All full time now (for years). I reckon even our most creative players from the past would have found it hard to find space.
In all other sports (that can be measured without emotion) skills, pace, strength have improved.
Sad but ... our minds are playing tricks.
The Alex Murphy team would have to really adjust their game to play today ... mind you make 'em all full time & give them 6 months ... they might cope OK.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:50 pm  

Smiffy27 wrote:

We have suddenly gone from "our weakest position" to why is rugby not as exciting. Well ... for me it is all about defences ... they are so much better. All full time now (for years). I reckon even our most creative players from the past would have found it hard to find space.
In all other sports (that can be measured without emotion) skills, pace, strength have improved.
Sad but ... our minds are playing tricks.
The Alex Murphy team would have to really adjust their game to play today ... mind you make 'em all full time & give them 6 months ... they might cope OK.

There's no 10 meters, there's an eternity of holding down in every tackle, our games now gone so mind numbingly slow and boring. I am enjoying NRL games more and more with each passing season compared with SL

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:39 pm  

MorePlaymakersNeeded wrote:

there's an eternity of holding down in every tackle

Yep ... unless we get to grip with this, defences will hold sway. It is not just holding down as there is every trick in the book to slow down the player in possession playing the ball.