Re: George Williams. : Wed May 26, 2021 10:22 pm  

Interesting to see Warrington outbidding Wigan for Williams. Wigan now frantically scrambling around to find someone to force into retirement so they can afford to bring their homesick boy back whilst Warrington continue to push for glory. As a fan of a rival I've got to admire Moran, he's unrelenting in his quest to bring you the title. Whilst Saints and every other club in RL are looking for savings, he's out there throwing it around.

Also interesting to see the score from the Under 16s academy game tonight. Warrington 0 Saints 30, did anyone watch it? This is the age group where 14 of the Saints team were from Rylands. Most of the Saints team from Warrington beating the Warrington team from Oldham, Yorkshire and the Under 15s no doubt. If the effort into the academy setup matched the effort that clearly goes into recruiting established players for the first team, Warrington could dominate.

Re: George Williams. : Wed May 26, 2021 10:41 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Interesting to see Warrington outbidding Wigan for Williams. Wigan now frantically scrambling around to find someone to force into retirement so they can afford to bring their homesick boy back whilst Warrington continue to push for glory. As a fan of a rival I've got to admire Moran, he's unrelenting in his quest to bring you the title. Whilst Saints and every other club in RL are looking for savings, he's out there throwing it around.

Also interesting to see the score from the Under 16s academy game tonight. Warrington 0 Saints 30, did anyone watch it? This is the age group where 14 of the Saints team were from Rylands. Most of the Saints team from Warrington beating the Warrington team from Oldham, Yorkshire and the Under 15s no doubt. If the effort into the academy setup matched the effort that clearly goes into recruiting established players for the first team, Warrington could dominate.

Well I'd do your research saddened seeing as at least 4 lads from that age group have already quit rugby and left saints amazing scholarship program.

Re: George Williams. : Wed May 26, 2021 10:47 pm  

Moe syslak wrote:

Well I'd do your research saddened seeing as at least 4 lads from that age group have already quit rugby and left saints amazing scholarship program.

He has a point though still.

The club have admitted themselves numerous times that they haven’t done enough in this area.

Re: George Williams. : Wed May 26, 2021 11:09 pm  

Moe syslak wrote:

Well I'd do your research saddened seeing as at least 4 lads from that age group have already quit rugby and left saints amazing scholarship program.

I'm not surprised. A year with no rugby and an uncertain future plus possibly decent paid work for some will always pull some away from the game.

Re: George Williams. : Thu May 27, 2021 8:40 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Interesting to see Warrington outbidding Wigan for Williams. Wigan now frantically scrambling around to find someone to force into retirement so they can afford to bring their homesick boy back whilst Warrington continue to push for glory. As a fan of a rival I've got to admire Moran, he's unrelenting in his quest to bring you the title. Whilst Saints and every other club in RL are looking for savings, he's out there throwing it around.

Also interesting to see the score from the Under 16s academy game tonight. Warrington 0 Saints 30, did anyone watch it? This is the age group where 14 of the Saints team were from Rylands. Most of the Saints team from Warrington beating the Warrington team from Oldham, Yorkshire and the Under 15s no doubt. If the effort into the academy setup matched the effort that clearly goes into recruiting established players for the first team, Warrington could dominate.

I remember lots of posts on here when Lewis Charnock joined St Helens, where he was described as a definite star of the future.

An Under 16`s game, is essentially schoolboys level, so it is very difficult to predict growth rates, while some of the bigger lads dominate just because of their size, when a lot of them don`t grow any bigger.

It is very much a lottery at that age to predict who will progress to 1st team football.

Re: George Williams. : Thu May 27, 2021 9:15 am  

Boss Hog wrote:

I remember lots of posts on here when Lewis Charnock joined St Helens, where he was described as a definite star of the future.

An Under 16`s game, is essentially schoolboys level, so it is very difficult to predict growth rates, while some of the bigger lads dominate just because of their size, when a lot of them don`t grow any bigger.

It is very much a lottery at that age to predict who will progress to 1st team football.

Absolutely. I have seen countless number of youngsters who run through everybody at a young age and never develop passing skills. They suddenly find the game much more difficult when others catch up and start flattening them.

Re: George Williams. : Thu May 27, 2021 9:18 am  

Boss Hog wrote:

I remember lots of posts on here when Lewis Charnock joined St Helens, where he was described as a definite star of the future.

An Under 16`s game, is essentially schoolboys level, so it is very difficult to predict growth rates, while some of the bigger lads dominate just because of their size, when a lot of them don`t grow any bigger.

It is very much a lottery at that age to predict who will progress to 1st team football.

Charnock chose Saints simply because they offered more training sessions and took it more seriously, which was what started that debate?

Warrington are way behind Saints, Wigan and Leeds in youth development generally, the proof of that is obvious to see. There is a direct correlation between the strength of the academy setup and success on the field, it's easier to cover injuries, rebuilding the squad is quicker and cheaper if you can bring players through etc. IMO it's the main reason Warrington haven't won SL yet, everything else has been in place for getting on for 20 years now. The suggestion has been that Warrington don't put enough effort into it, or certainly don't do it consistently year on year. I can see that first hand as I watch relatives play at or around the scholarship age groups they should be looking at and there are never any scouts from Warrington at the games. They also don't seem to bother with any sort of pathway to develop players who have the talent but aren't reaching scholarship standard. I regularly hear coaches from Warrington teams slating the Warrington system and encouraging their players to look elsewhere and that shouldn't be happening. Of course it's a lottery as to whether players eventually progress and develop into first team players, but if I was a fan of Warrington I'd be disappointed knowing that the best players from Warrington quite regularly don't get picked up by the club. That Rylands team that sparked so much debate is proof of that. As a team they are outstanding and two or three of their players said to be in the top 5 in the country in the age groupd and them not being signed by Warrington rightly raised eyebrows. Again, there's no guarantees they will ever amount to anything in the game, but you'd stand a better chance if you were taking the best young players. I just think given the size of your club and the investment being made in making it a success, the best players in Warrington should be signed by Warrington and those with potential should be being worked with and monitored along with their community club, a sort of scholarship reserve setup if you like to see if any can push through to the top level. It's certainly better than it used to be, but perhaps needs to be more of a focus.

Re: George Williams. : Thu May 27, 2021 9:41 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Interesting to see Warrington outbidding Wigan for Williams. Wigan now frantically scrambling around to find someone to force into retirement so they can afford to bring their homesick boy back whilst Warrington continue to push for glory. As a fan of a rival I've got to admire Moran, he's unrelenting in his quest to bring you the title. Whilst Saints and every other club in RL are looking for savings, he's out there throwing it around.

Realistically of course we would have to outbid Wigan! Let's face it Wigan will be his preferred destination in all of superleague and in all honesty Wigan represent a much higher likelihood of winning superleague than we can present. We really need that first win I think to change the recruitment dynamic.

It would happen with you as well, let's say we wanted to sign percival from saints. We wouldn't exactly manage that by offering him less would we? We'd have to at least match your offer and sell the POSSIBILITY of becoming immortalised in Warrington folklore as a mwmver of the team to finally deliver us the coveted trophy, as well as maybe winning a challenge cup or 2 along the way. That's selling against saints who offer a far greater track record in recent years of delivering the superleague trophy, it's not an easy sell. I suppose he would maybe want to be on the other side of the wire v saints knockout games hoodoo we have over you though so we could play on thay too

Re: George Williams. : Thu May 27, 2021 9:43 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Charnock chose Saints simply because they offered more training sessions and took it more seriously, which was what started that debate?

Warrington are way behind Saints, Wigan and Leeds in youth development generally, the proof of that is obvious to see. There is a direct correlation between the strength of the academy setup and success on the field, it's easier to cover injuries, rebuilding the squad is quicker and cheaper if you can bring players through etc. IMO it's the main reason Warrington haven't won SL yet, everything else has been in place for getting on for 20 years now. The suggestion has been that Warrington don't put enough effort into it, or certainly don't do it consistently year on year. I can see that first hand as I watch relatives play at or around the scholarship age groups they should be looking at and there are never any scouts from Warrington at the games. They also don't seem to bother with any sort of pathway to develop players who have the talent but aren't reaching scholarship standard. I regularly hear coaches from Warrington teams slating the Warrington system and encouraging their players to look elsewhere and that shouldn't be happening. Of course it's a lottery as to whether players eventually progress and develop into first team players, but if I was a fan of Warrington I'd be disappointed knowing that the best players from Warrington quite regularly don't get picked up by the club. That Rylands team that sparked so much debate is proof of that. As a team they are outstanding and two or three of their players said to be in the top 5 in the country in the age groupd and them not being signed by Warrington rightly raised eyebrows. Again, there's no guarantees they will ever amount to anything in the game, but you'd stand a better chance if you were taking the best young players. I just think given the size of your club and the investment being made in making it a success, the best players in Warrington should be signed by Warrington and those with potential should be being worked with and monitored along with their community club, a sort of scholarship reserve setup if you like to see if any can push through to the top level. It's certainly better than it used to be, but perhaps needs to be more of a focus.

Agree 100% with this sad one, great post.

You should get a job at wire in the youth development setup. You'd probably get that wire training tracksuit with your initials you've wanted so badly for so long.

Re: George Williams. : Thu May 27, 2021 10:12 am  

If I am not mistaken, we lost 3 or 4 players from the U16’s last year during the pandemic to Sale Sharks. Latterly, the likes of Thewlis, Dean, Doro, Wrench, Longstaff and Gannon suggests we have done rather better recently in terms of potential.
Would really like to hear a response to Saddened from WalterWizard, if appropriate, who is better placed than most to give an assessment.