Re: what positions are our weakest? : Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:27 pm  

Try Rob Riches

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Mon Oct 16, 2023 11:49 pm  

Smiffy27 wrote:

We have suddenly gone from "our weakest position" to why is rugby not as exciting. Well ... for me it is all about defences ... they are so much better. All full time now (for years). I reckon even our most creative players from the past would have found it hard to find space.
In all other sports (that can be measured without emotion) skills, pace, strength have improved.
Sad but ... our minds are playing tricks.
The Alex Murphy team would have to really adjust their game to play today ... mind you make 'em all full time & give them 6 months ... they might cope OK.

Yes but are defences today significantly better than 15-20 years ago? There was definitely a step change in the first 10 years of Super League (a good barometer was Iestyn Harris before and after his spell in union - he found it much harder to ghost through defences second time around). But I don't know that there has been a big step forward since then. The game was a fantastic spectacle in the mid 2000s with some superb teams.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:42 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

The game was a fantastic spectacle in the mid 2000s with some superb teams.

You only have to watch some classic games with Bradford, Saints and Wigan from that period to realise how far our game has fallen.

It comes to something when England vs Fiji offered a little more excitement and creative off the cuff play than the Grand Final.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:52 am  

Well from Fiji anyway

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:56 am  

Wires71 wrote:

You only have to watch some classic games with Bradford, Saints and Wigan from that period to realise how far our game has fallen.

It comes to something when England vs Fiji offered a little more excitement and creative off the cuff play than the Grand Final.

That was just england v Fiji, ireland v new Zealand and France v South Africa absolutely smashed the grand final out of the park as far as a viewing spectacle goes. There is better ball handling and a faster more exciting spectacle in union these days, even the club game can be better on occasion.

I've heard quite a lot of the talk in talksport and the likes about the grand final being one for the purists (it wasn't), which is a kind way of saying it was dull as dishwater. The sport won't attract new sponsors and fans unless the powers that be make the game quicker and more exciting.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:06 am  

CW8 wrote:

The sport won't attract new sponsors and fans unless the powers that be make the game quicker and more exciting.

It seems to me easy to fix. Just police the tackle and play the ball tighter with sin bin and penalty for repeat offence of holding down and slowing the ruck. Tackle and off the player when the ref says held. If you don't - penalty. This would give the attacking side more reward for running hard and create opportunities of less than perfectly aligned defences for the flair players to exploit. Oh and whilst we are at it - enforce the 10 meters at the play the ball. Not 9 or 8.5 by the time the ball is played.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:12 am  

Wires71 wrote:

It seems to me easy to fix. Just police the tackle and play the ball tighter with sin bin and penalty for repeat offence of holding down and slowing the ruck. Tackle and off the player when the ref says held. If you don't - penalty. This would give the attacking side more reward for running hard and create opportunities of less than perfectly aligned defences for the flair players to exploit. Oh and whilst we are at it - enforce the 10 meters at the play the ball. Not 9 or 8.5 by the time the ball is played.

Its a good point, I think RL is in danger of becoming too much of a slug fest, which isn't going to attract the neutral supporter - it's an entertainment business, lets play to a set of rules that promotes that. Six again was supposed to help that, if anything it has made it worse.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:16 am  

Wires71 wrote:

It seems to me easy to fix. Just police the tackle and play the ball tighter with sin bin and penalty for repeat offence of holding down and slowing the ruck. Tackle and off the player when the ref says held. If you don't - penalty. This would give the attacking side more reward for running hard and create opportunities of less than perfectly aligned defences for the flair players to exploit. Oh and whilst we are at it - enforce the 10 meters at the play the ball. Not 9 or 8.5 by the time the ball is played.

Totally agree, when the referee calls move, if every tackling player doesn't move straight away then a penalty is called. A team mate being in the way by lying on top isn't an excuse. Hands on the opposition player trying to play the ball is penalised, stepping off the mark is penalised. Players and clubs would soon get the message, apart from saints who would just think everyone has it in for them because the officials are actually penalising their players infringements.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:43 am  

Alffi_7 wrote:

Its a good point, I think RL is in danger of becoming too much of a slug fest, which isn't going to attract the neutral supporter - it's an entertainment business, lets play to a set of rules that promotes that. Six again was supposed to help that, if anything it has made it worse.

Six again has been a failure as it is exploited and gamed early in the tackle count to buy defences more time, it's a tactic. It also has diminished the impact of the the offense of purposefully slowing the ruck. Before the six again rule the infringing team were penalised with a kick to touch (-30 yards) AND six more tackles to defend or a penalty goal attempt.

All the mithering at the play the ball, hands in on the ball, accidentally getting legs and arms caught, taking 2-3 seconds after held is called is all BS and ruining the game. It's slow, unattractive and dull. As soon as the player surrenders the defensive players need to clear out. If you want 3 in the tackle then they had better be quick getting out of the way or it's a penalty. This will hopefully end the spectacle of attacking players throwing their arms in the air in feigned exasperation. It's pantomime crap, as is feigning injury.

Re: what positions are our weakest? : Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:22 pm  

And to think we 'upgraded' on this bloke with Dudson https://twitter.com/England_RL/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet

And to think we 'upgraded' on this bloke with Dudson https://twitter.com/England_RL/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet