Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:08 pm  

I agree with most comments but is Watson solely to blame for the players signed i cant see a coach having so much power on signing players.You have a big squad but not one player would get into Wigan or Saints side.Salford have a small squad as Leigh do so it is easy for a coach to work with fewer players.Looked at your results last season to beat Catalan home and away even Wigan and Saints failed to do this.The Grand Final has only 4 different winners one Bradford other Leeds who are now in the same situation as yourselves.Wigan and Saints will dominate for years to come and possibly Catalan but not much hope there.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:45 pm  

I agree with some of the comments. Russell clearly not good enough, saw Levi score for Canberra at the weekend, what a loss that has proved to be. Milner is a slow journeyman with a pretty slow pass. We needed speed in the spine but haven't recruited that, maybe the new young hooker should be given a go. Same old reaction from Watson. We still appear a slow side, miles behind the top teams.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:21 pm  

Murphy wrote:

I agree with some of the comments. Russell clearly not good enough, saw Levi score for Canberra at the weekend, what a loss that has proved to be. Milner is a slow journeyman with a pretty slow pass. We needed speed in the spine but haven't recruited that, maybe the new young hooker should be given a go. Same old reaction from Watson. We still appear a slow side, miles behind the top teams.

Levi has been a huge loss, the 1 season we has him, we had speed at the ruck & teams couldn't cope.

Even as a supporter you can telepath what Milner & Goulding are going to do as we are so slow, now if we as supporters can see it, then I can guarantee the opposition can see it.

Best we can hope for is another CC run because the League & Playoffs are a million miles away.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:11 pm  

I think Lolohea might be best at FB but I'd play him in the halves with Clune. Try Deakin? at 9, see what he can offer.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:11 pm  

For once there seems to be a fair amount of unity in so far as considering the abilities, or perhaps more accurately shortcomings, of the players (and to some degree the coach).

Since our bubble burst in 2015 when Grix failed to deal with the kick through for Ryan Hall to score, we have had one cracking season (2022), the second half of which was even blighted by injuries and ended in a whimper.

What did we have two years ago? An out and out hooker with speed an, ability to commit defenders by running out of dummy half and firing out a quality pass.

What have we now at 9? A hooker/loose forward who strengthens our defence in the middle but poses so few questions of the opposition. Or a utility player with heaps of enthusiasm but sometimes erratic distribution. Or a fullback/ halfback. Or our only out and out hooker, brought from Roosters system, who can't get in ahead of the aforementioned players. Nobody, it seems, who can do what Levi could; I appreciate what Milner and particularly Golding bring to the side, but it's what they don't bring that is the issue. Perhaps instead of hookers we should rename our 9s escorts...

Jamie Jones Buchanan has made a list of his top 5 hookers in the league - all of them can get moving out of dummy half. Seriousaboutrl.com (not everyone's cup of tea, granted) have submitted a separate list and it will come as a surprise to nobody that none of our hookers/ semi-hookers are included in either list.

With speed (feet and passing) at 9 we were able to increase pressure on the opposition and ask questions of them. Without it, at least as I see it, the limitations of Russell are further exposed. An over-used platitude in football commentary is that a player has not performed to his own high standards. Prior to HKR I thought Russell had played well this season - for his own standards. Unfortunately those standards aren't, in my eyes, sufficiently high enough for the level we - at least we in the stands - aspire to reach. How I wish they were...

We could talk about his non-jump for their try, his utterly-infuriating attempt to tackle by holding the opponent's head with two hands, but the issue is he has no speed of movement and little creativity. This should come as no revelation, but we persist with him. I won't fault his work effort, I just don't feel that he offers enough to be first choice.

Connor has been knocked for his lack of pace but he can create something out of nothing. And with him, Clune (I'm not criticizing him; he's looked useful other than last week) and Russell it is fair to say we aren't blessed with out and out pace. Combined with the lack of speed coming away from acting half back, it is understandable why, as some have said, we are too predictable.

It would be remiss not to comment on the forwards' contributions this season too. The positives: Leroy has been fantastic... Erm... Murchie looks promising... Stretching things a bit now... Rushton looks in good shape for his first hit out. The negatives: Hill aside (other than last week) we don't have a prop who can make metres. Marsters made more than them combined last week. English does very few metres when not out with HIA and Wilson doesn't do too many more despite some strong looking carries. Seb is able knock one or two out the way with his carries but those runs are far too few in number; otherwise he is steady away like all the others.

Murchie seems handy but Hewitt to me is another who works hard, albeit not making too many metres, and as an Academy player is one I would love to see succeed, but I doubt he would be in the first choice 17 of any other club with serious aspirations of making the top six.

Last week I thought our problem was as much to do with the lack of composure and unacceptable level of unforced errors, both with and without the ball. Errors which would frustrate at Underbank Under 19s where my dad used to play. I tried to take a glass half full approach from the Saints game (eventually) as we competed well despite looking utterly clueless in attack. After our start against Wigan we didn't look a bad side (though a good side surely wouldn't have started as slowly). But glass half full or empty against HKR, it would have to take something pretty strong to help take positives away from last Saturday. Here's one, admittedly at a push. Despite our deficiencies, we will look much better (and have half a chance at creating some pressure) if we cut out - or even just cut down on - our ludicrous mistakes on the field. Off the pitch with the coaching staff? That'll take something stronger still.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:40 pm  

no fear wrote:

For once there seems to be a fair amount of unity in so far as considering the abilities, or perhaps more accurately shortcomings, of the players (and to some degree the coach).

Since our bubble burst in 2015 when Grix failed to deal with the kick through for Ryan Hall to score, we have had one cracking season (2022), the second half of which was even blighted by injuries and ended in a whimper.

What did we have two years ago? An out and out hooker with speed an, ability to commit defenders by running out of dummy half and firing out a quality pass.

What have we now at 9? A hooker/loose forward who strengthens our defence in the middle but poses so few questions of the opposition. Or a utility player with heaps of enthusiasm but sometimes erratic distribution. Or a fullback/ halfback. Or our only out and out hooker, brought from Roosters system, who can't get in ahead of the aforementioned players. Nobody, it seems, who can do what Levi could; I appreciate what Milner and particularly Golding bring to the side, but it's what they don't bring that is the issue. Perhaps instead of hookers we should rename our 9s escorts...

Jamie Jones Buchanan has made a list of his top 5 hookers in the league - all of them can get moving out of dummy half. Seriousaboutrl.com (not everyone's cup of tea, granted) have submitted a separate list and it will come as a surprise to nobody that none of our hookers/ semi-hookers are included in either list.

With speed (feet and passing) at 9 we were able to increase pressure on the opposition and ask questions of them. Without it, at least as I see it, the limitations of Russell are further exposed. An over-used platitude in football commentary is that a player has not performed to his own high standards. Prior to HKR I thought Russell had played well this season - for his own standards. Unfortunately those standards aren't, in my eyes, sufficiently high enough for the level we - at least we in the stands - aspire to reach. How I wish they were...

We could talk about his non-jump for their try, his utterly-infuriating attempt to tackle by holding the opponent's head with two hands, but the issue is he has no speed of movement and little creativity. This should come as no revelation, but we persist with him. I won't fault his work effort, I just don't feel that he offers enough to be first choice.

Connor has been knocked for his lack of pace but he can create something out of nothing. And with him, Clune (I'm not criticizing him; he's looked useful other than last week) and Russell it is fair to say we aren't blessed with out and out pace. Combined with the lack of speed coming away from acting half back, it is understandable why, as some have said, we are too predictable.

It would be remiss not to comment on the forwards' contributions this season too. The positives: Leroy has been fantastic... Erm... Murchie looks promising... Stretching things a bit now... Rushton looks in good shape for his first hit out. The negatives: Hill aside (other than last week) we don't have a prop who can make metres. Marsters made more than them combined last week. English does very few metres when not out with HIA and Wilson doesn't do too many more despite some strong looking carries. Seb is able knock one or two out the way with his carries but those runs are far too few in number; otherwise he is steady away like all the others.

Murchie seems handy but Hewitt to me is another who works hard, albeit not making too many metres, and as an Academy player is one I would love to see succeed, but I doubt he would be in the first choice 17 of any other club with serious aspirations of making the top six.

Last week I thought our problem was as much to do with the lack of composure and unacceptable level of unforced errors, both with and without the ball. Errors which would frustrate at Underbank Under 19s where my dad used to play. I tried to take a glass half full approach from the Saints game (eventually) as we competed well despite looking utterly clueless in attack. After our start against Wigan we didn't look a bad side (though a good side surely wouldn't have started as slowly). But glass half full or empty against HKR, it would have to take something pretty strong to help take positives away from last Saturday. Here's one, admittedly at a push. Despite our deficiencies, we will look much better (and have half a chance at creating some pressure) if we cut out - or even just cut down on - our ludicrous mistakes on the field. Off the pitch with the coaching staff? That'll take something stronger still.

You may well find this hard to believe but there are still some people besides Mr Watson who think Russel is a decent Super league level half. I haven't been down yet this season and it's not looking likely i'll be going any time soon.
Iv'e always though K Davy deserves some sort of recognition for what he has done for the Giants but as it has already been said there is little enthusiasm for Rugby league in Huddersfield and when you watch the side perform it is very easy to understand why, They are never going to get the crowds of the top clubs but they are capable of decent crowds ( as was shown in the days of Nathan brown) but i just don't believe there's any chance of that with Mr Watsons style of football and i don't think he has any other style, I think he is floundering very badly with the big squad he has assembled .
The most mystifying thing to me is why Mr Davy continues to keep going, There obviously has to be a reason but it escapes me, I would say if ever a man deserved some success it is him but i just don't think he is going to get any, Here we are on year 4 i believe of Mr Watsons, tenure with more new players, ever more of Mr Davy's money spent and so far this season ( early i know ) looking no better than last season which was bl***dy awful. Unless another N Brown can be found from somewhere it's going to be the same depressing drudgery and decline, I desperately wish it was different, I'm well into my eighties and my first game was in 1953 i don't know how many more seasons 'ill be able to support but there will have to be big changes before ever go again i think.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Thu Mar 21, 2024 6:35 pm  

Thanks for responding, it's always interesting to hear another take on the situation, though I suspect your glasses will be more of the half empty variety - and quite understandable given the frustrations we have all shared over the last few years.

I am well aware that Russell is well regarded by many other than Watson. He has my support when he plays and, as stated, I wish for him to succeed. Appears to like the club, has family connections with the club, tries hard. All laudable as far as I am concerned. What I clearly fail to appreciate, however, and I am evidently not alone in this, is what his attributes are that make him sufficiently good enough for a team seeking to challenge for the playoffs and to facilitate a brand of rugby attractive enough to entice the seemingly apathetic Huddersfield public back to the ground.

You're quite right about Nathan Brown's entertaining sides with the likes of Hodgson, Brown/ Robinson/ Brough and Lunt in the spine, all of whom had attributes such as pace, speed of thought & creativity. I hope you're correct that a more exciting brand of rugby will bring more of the fans back. But, as you suggest, and regrettably so, this does not appear to be Watson's style; a style apparently both influenced by and influencing his choice of player.

As I alluded to in my previous post, too many of our spine (and the rest) are steady away. I recall Brett Hodgson at Castleford charging from one touchline to the other in order to perform a try-saving tackle on Richard Owen, which was immediately followed by scoring the decisive try in the next set of six. As much as I like and rate Connor, he can appear laboured in his defensive coverage. We don't have a Lunt or Levi at hooker. Milner is solid and dependable but not a hooker to get us moving forward. Very much a Watson type of player, it seems. In the halves we have Clune who looks good but it is early days, Lolohea who is a bit rocks or diamonds, and another Watson type in Russell.

If you are considering returning to watch the side in the future what type of player would you prefer to see? A Lunt or a Milner? A Brown/ Brough from the halcyon Nathan Brown days or a Russell? It's chalk and cheese, unfortunately, isn't it? As to what keeps your fellow octogenarian, Mr Davy, going, I have no idea - a half full glass, perhaps? - but I'm eternally grateful for it and I wish his enthusiasm could permeate through to more people in the town - both through the good and the bad. I've seen plenty since the early nineties so, after following since 1953, you must have seen more than your fair share. It may take some changes, but I sincerely hope that you get to experience more good times ahead.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 pm  

Enjoyed reading both reflective responses. I feel particularly disappointed with the lack of a quality hooker, I know they are not easy to find. There seems to be a big gap in recruitment between the top few teams and others.

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:59 pm  

It's nice to see more posters on here! I have been talking about our lack of speed in the spine, and Watson's inability to strengthen the areas we are weak in since at least the middle of last season, but nice to see that i am not the only one who thinks this. If we can all see this, how bad is a coach who clearly can't? He has had lots of opportunity to get better spine players since Levi sadly departed to Australia but has signed only journeymen.

I agree about Connor creating something out of nothing, and if you put him in a side that already has plenty of pace, he would look very good. In our side , he was a massive waste of money as he lacks what we so desperately need, pace. He is one of the slowest spine players off the mark in the league and certainly wont get better in that regard with age, no matter how much weight he loses. Maybe, that signing wasn't totally down to Watson, because Connor clearly has ties here, but a better coach would have put his foot down and said that's not the player we want to spend big money on.

As i have stated previously i honestly cannot think of a less exciting Huddersfield team to watch, even in the bad old days there was at least a Brandon Costin, Brad Drew or Stanley Gene to light up a game with some spark. This team has absolutely nothing in the middle of the park, Lolohea has clearly gone backwards, Russell has never been anything other than championship standard and when pressure is applied to him he runs around like a headless chicken, or simply tips the ball on to someone in a worse position that him. Clunes is fine, but nothing special and our Hookers are utterly dire at making yards and attacking the line.

I honestly think Ken persists with Watson because this is his last hurrah, he has tried and failed to get a team to win something for the longest time, and i think the big backing of Watson was probably his last spin of the wheel and he can't quite let go of it yet. He will soon though, as i have said previously when it's clear we wont make the playoffs and are out of the cup he will have to wake up and smell the coffee and finally sack him. Sorry Ian, you were a one trick pony at Saford and i'm far from convinced Salford's playstyle was down to you as you have brought absolutely none of it with you here and they continue playing a great style of Rugby no matter who is coaching them,

Re: Dreadful - Watson's future? : Sat Mar 23, 2024 5:46 pm  

WelshGiant wrote:

Firstly can I say I'm sorry, you're quite right.

I'm just very angry & frustrated at our lack of going forward as a club and continuing to sign utter muppets.

So I take it back.

Accepted…very sporting of you. I think you’re being a bit hard on your team, it’s still early days. You will make the six imo.
Great result today by the way