: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:22 am  

YED79 wrote: Realise that part of the reason attendances have gone down is partly down to people losing jobs and tightening the purse strings. Attendances are down across the board. perhaps in other sports, but not in League (yet) http://www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13087

YED79 wrote: Realise that part of the reason attendances have gone down is partly down to people losing jobs and tightening the purse strings. Attendances are down across the board. perhaps in other sports, but not in League (yet) http://www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13087

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:35 am  

Tre Cool wrote: Bonkers because people who prefer soccer cant go? RL fans should be our target market, and keeping them should be our priority after that. There are thousands of them in the SE who are exiles, aussies, armchair supporters but dont come to watch us. NO, NO, NO. community, community, community. the clubs play on sat morning & afternoons. The kids and their families can't come to watch their heroes. Seriously - look here and tell me how many other clubs you can find playing on Sat's at 3pm - http://www.superleague.co.uk/fixtures.php?rid=322 Erm. Not one. Ever. Saturday's at 3 were chosen to benefit the few hardcore keyboard warriors who voted with their fingers. 4000 people (and increasing) take to the field ever weekend in the South. They are already converted RL fans, you don't have to convince them! But they don't come 'cause a) they can't and b) they're p1ssed off at having been treated very, very averagely by a nomadic club over a long period of time. Bringing them back won't happen overnight, but will happen over a several year period of bridge building.....but at least give them the chance to support!

Tre Cool wrote: Bonkers because people who prefer soccer cant go? RL fans should be our target market, and keeping them should be our priority after that. There are thousands of them in the SE who are exiles, aussies, armchair supporters but dont come to watch us. NO, NO, NO. community, community, community. the clubs play on sat morning & afternoons. The kids and their families can't come to watch their heroes. Seriously - look here and tell me how many other clubs you can find playing on Sat's at 3pm - http://www.superleague.co.uk/fixtures.php?rid=322 Erm. Not one. Ever. Saturday's at 3 were chosen to benefit the few hardcore keyboard warriors who voted with their fingers. 4000 people (and increasing) take to the field ever weekend in the South. They are already converted RL fans, you don't have to convince them! But they don't come 'cause a) they can't and b) they're p1ssed off at having been treated very, very averagely by a nomadic club over a long period of time. Bringing them back won't happen overnight, but will happen over a several year period of bridge building.....but at least give them the chance to support!

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:41 am  

Saturday's at 3 were chosen to benefit the few hardcore keyboard warriors who voted with their fingers.

4000 people (and increasing) take to the field ever weekend in the South. They are already converted RL fans, you don't have to convince them! But they don't come 'cause a) they can't and b) they're p1ssed off at having been treated very, very averagely by a nomadic club over a long period of time. Bringing them back won't happen overnight, but will happen over a several year period of bridge building.....but at least give them the chance to support!

Both issues you have presented are nonsense

Last year half the season was Sat and half Sun. The crowds were bigger on the Sat

All local players were given season tickets with there club memberships. It was stated by the club only 100 used them on match days.

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:48 am  

Chris Brown wrote:

I have walked away and I am missing it. My decision is however justified in that the first home game I would have been to watch is 19 April and maybe I could then see only 3 more in the season due to Saturday kick offs.

So for me its no good. I either want to see the lot or none, I am not someone who can watch the odd game

Still reckon Saturday home games is bonkers and clearly not working so far

im gonna buy you a record for your birthday

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:44 am  

wire-quin wrote:

Both issues you have presented are nonsense

Last year half the season was Sat and half Sun. The crowds were bigger on the Sat

All local players were given season tickets with there club memberships. It was stated by the club only 100 used them on match days.

Mate - I am tired of you throwing this cack back at me, you have done it before. Wake up and smell the coffee.

This club has categorically disenfranchised the community game over a long, long period in the South.

How do I know - because I play in it and I speak to 100's of people in it every week. And I have for a long, long time. Bridges burnt over 10 years are not rebuilt over one season.

Can't you see that the biggest argument for building a community based RL club is based on the fact that NO other SL club plays games over the top of their community clubs fixtures. None. Nada.

Last years stats are completely skewed and not representative. The Saturday Wigan attendance was a freak opener, with more Wigan fans than Quins fans, plus a MASSIVE pre season push to get people in on free tickets. Also the community game hadn't started playing by then.

Inevitably if one plays Wigan, KR, Saints and Leeds on Sat's and then Cas, Cats and Bradford at the tail end of an increasingly poor season on Sundays, it's going to misrepresent the figures. Plus, seeing Paul Brown, icon of the community game and immensely well respected across it, disappear in weird circumstances mid season didn't engender a great spirit towards the club for the second half of the season.

Yes, more away fans come on Saturdays (further skewing the stats) but you do not build a club on away support.

As for the club saying that very few community clubs took advantage of the offer - they have no idea, they have never been good at keeping a CRM. It's just another knee jerk reaction to a short term perception of things not working, so we'll change it again. In the same way that they've changed ground, kit, name, staff, management, owner and attitude to community clubs for years and years and years.

A few other things - free tickets don't work in the long run. It's proven. They are valueless. Little Jimmy goes home to his mother and says - I have free tickets to Quins RL. How on earth do these tickets then ever have value? Once something is free, it's expected to be free forever. You can't attach value to it.

Cashback schemes to clubs have been tried and have worked in the past. Until the club lost the staff who put them in place and everything fell apart.....

WQ - please come back to me with some thought through, intellectual arguments instead of one off statements that you think are representative.

I don't expect a lot of sympathy for the community game on these boards - you are generally all hard core, die hard fans who come to games because you believe (like I do) that we have the best sporting product there is. But not many other Londoners agree with you and we need to embrace those that do. It's not an overnight project.....but the sooner the community game is respected and nurtured to come to games, the better.

This too might be stuck record, but believe me - in spite of their fans loving it, every Community Marketeer of every northern based club in the SL is p1ssing themselves laughing at our Saturday 3pm k.o.

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:50 am  

poorlytoe wrote:

A few other things - free tickets don't work in the long run. It's proven. They are valueless. Little Jimmy goes home to his mother and says - I have free tickets to Quins RL. How on earth do these tickets then ever have value? Once something is free, it's expected to be free forever. You can't attach value to it.

I think that is absolute rubbish. Who thinks that in today's world? Ever heard of introductory offers? I get a free 90-day trial for Lovefilm but I am fully aware it is not free forever. That is a bizarre thing to say.

This too might be stuck record, but believe me - in spite of their fans loving it, every Community Marketeer of every northern based club in the SL is p1ssing themselves laughing at our Saturday 3pm k.o.

any evidence for that claim other than just guesswork?

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:59 am  

The Penguin wrote:

any evidence for that claim other than just guesswork?

I have it from the horses mouth, and more than one example. I would not let them down by providing more evidence on here but please take my word.

This club invests heavily in a community programme - look at the numbers of staff described on the website FFS. The end goal of this (and ONLY real original reason for its existence) is to increase attendances. But with the same breath the club makes it structurally impossible to achieve this goal. Work that one out! Nuts, absolutely nuts.

Other than that, I'd just like to say: What he says...

poorlytoe wrote:

Mate - I am tired of you throwing this cack back at me, you have done it before. Wake up and smell the coffee.

This club has categorically disenfranchised the community game over a long, long period in the South.

How do I know - because I play in it and I speak to 100's of people in it every week. And I have for a long, long time. Bridges burnt over 10 years are not rebuilt over one season.

Can't you see that the biggest argument for building a community based RL club is based on the fact that NO other SL club plays games over the top of their community clubs fixtures. None. Nada.

Last years stats are completely skewed and not representative. The Saturday Wigan attendance was a freak opener, with more Wigan fans than Quins fans, plus a MASSIVE pre season push to get people in on free tickets. Also the community game hadn't started playing by then.

Inevitably if one plays Wigan, KR, Saints and Leeds on Sat's and then Cas, Cats and Bradford at the tail end of an increasingly poor season on Sundays, it's going to misrepresent the figures. Plus, seeing Paul Brown, icon of the community game and immensely well respected across it, disappear in weird circumstances mid season didn't engender a great spirit towards the club for the second half of the season.

Yes, more away fans come on Saturdays (further skewing the stats) but you do not build a club on away support.

As for the club saying that very few community clubs took advantage of the offer - they have no idea, they have never been good at keeping a CRM. It's just another knee jerk reaction to a short term perception of things not working, so we'll change it again. In the same way that they've changed ground, kit, name, staff, management, owner and attitude to community clubs for years and years and years.

A few other things - free tickets don't work in the long run. It's proven. They are valueless. Little Jimmy goes home to his mother and says - I have free tickets to Quins RL. How on earth do these tickets then ever have value? Once something is free, it's expected to be free forever. You can't attach value to it.

Cashback schemes to clubs have been tried and have worked in the past. Until the club lost the staff who put them in place and everything fell apart.....

WQ - please come back to me with some thought through, intellectual arguments instead of one off statements that you think are representative.

I don't expect a lot of sympathy for the community game on these boards - you are generally all hard core, die hard fans who come to games because you believe (like I do) that we have the best sporting product there is. But not many other Londoners agree with you and we need to embrace those that do. It's not an overnight project.....but the sooner the community game is respected and nurtured to come to games, the better.

This too might be stuck record, but believe me - in spite of their fans loving it, every Community Marketeer of every northern based club in the SL is p1ssing themselves laughing at our Saturday 3pm k.o.

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:05 am  

so Sundays are better?

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:11 am  

The Penguin wrote:

I think that is absolute rubbish. Who thinks that in today's world? Ever heard of introductory offers? I get a free 90-day trial for Lovefilm but I am fully aware it is not free forever. That is a bizarre thing to say.



any evidence for that claim other than just guesswork?

Penguin, this is not a DVD subscription service. It is sport. There is strong evidence that when something is freely given away (like a SEASON TICKET - all season..!!!!) it diminishes it's value. At least give it some value so that you can up-sell it - like the club are doing this year with the £20 family ticket. It also helps stem the club cash hemmorage. Honestly, Peter Deakin would be turning in his grave.

I go around the market all over the place mopping up free introductory offers and very rarely convert them into pay deals once they expire.

And yes, I have evidence that I cannot share with you. I know practically every marketer in every SL club. Give them a call if you like, their names and numbers are on club websites. It's really very logical as HKB, in his inimitable and succinct style sums up far more eloquently than I ever could (thanks!)

This aside, I'm pleased with the fact that you couldn't come back on anything else Penguin, it must mean that my logic is getting through in other areas of my post...?

: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:13 am  

Sundays are terrible.