Re: rl : Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:22 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Star players in RU routinely earn salaries of £250K so it would be no problem for them to get their ex-players back if they felt like it.

Star RL players earn a similar amount, some more

and if RU want to pay unsustainable sums to bring players back, thats fine, the only game that damages is RU!

Re: rl : Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:24 pm  

DaveO wrote:

You don't half talk some rubbish at times. When Boston and Offiah came over they were not International players and were involved in an amateur game.

RU players of the level they were at are now earning wages at least as comparable as to what RL could afford to offer so what is the incentive to switch? None I would say. Unless we adopt the ludicrous notion of over-paying them compared to comparable RL olayers already in the game

But suppose we did find another Offiah in the RU ranks and got him to play RL? What do you think would happen next? Well I will tell you, RU would simply poach him back again.

Star players in RU routinely earn salaries of £250K so it would be no problem for them to get their ex-players back if they felt like it.

But Noble wasn't on about signing unknowns anyway he was on about the O'Driscoll class of player and that is a none starter given what they earn and can achieve in their sport.

So just what is the point of signing a more average RU player? About the same as signing an average NRL instead of a top class one like Barrett player IMO. None.

There are hundreds of kids playing the game who if given the chance would love to play RL professionally I am sure. Noble is barking up the wrong tree and should be supporting moves to limit overseas players and develop British talent. Given his seeming lack of faith in his own teams young players it comes as no surprise he favours trying to find ready made alternatives.

Dave

two below average RU players are two of our best three-quarters in the country

[DaveO]

Re: rl : Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:46 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

it basically says better players get paid more, if a club wants to sign an RU player on £300k a year, its no different to going and spending £300k on a Barrett or Lockyer or Thurston

Not it doesn't. It is simply an acknowledgement that to temp them to switch codes would have to throw more cash at them. Noble however is living on cloud cuckoo land if he thinks £50K plus whatever clubs could afford under the salary cap is enough to tempt the type of players he mentioned in the interview.

the problem is the risk, and in that area what noble said has a lot of validity

Shane Williams maybe an outstanding RL winger, he could come over and be the best in the world,

he could not, it could take him a year to learn the game, an SL club under the SC simply cannot take that risk, to start the season £3-400k below all the other teams because it is taken up by a player still learning the game would be disasterous for any SL club,

which is why they dont do it, it isnt down to their wages, we can compete for most players, its the risk they represent,

So what you are saying is we pay a player £300K while he learns the game £50K of which is discounted from the salary cap?

And you can't see this is a completely ludicrous suggestion?

just as an aside you could put out an entire 3/4er line of england players who havent come through the RL system, and it would probably be the best england backline of the past 5 years,

we have brought through 0 world class three-quarters in SL, our best centre of the SL era was an RU player, our best winger was a Gaelic Footballer,

facts are we need to address that fact, and also start competing for the players who have the natural ability in those positions, at the moment RU get most of them

We have not brought them through because the clubs bar about three of them have completely failed to invest in player development and have gone for the quick fix of overseas players.

What you are advocating is another quick fix and a very expensive one. Flinging money at RU players is no different to giving it to overseas players. Yet again clubs do not have to develop their own talent. It is also an unrealistic one and thank goodness it is.

As to the English back line being better than any in RL at the moment whether they are or not they are not coming this way so instead of daft unrealistic notions of saying we should raid RU for them the game should concentrate on sorting it's own player development out.

Dave

Re: rl : Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:17 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Not it doesn't. It is simply an acknowledgement that to temp them to switch codes would have to throw more cash at them. Noble however is living on cloud cuckoo land if he thinks £50K plus whatever clubs could afford under the salary cap is enough to tempt the type of players he mentioned in the interview.

no, its not, its an acknowledgement that these are players who have alternative options, pretending that we exist in isolation is living in cloud cuckoo land, we dont, and we need to accept that

So what you are saying is we pay a player £300K while he learns the game £50K of which is discounted from the salary cap?

And you can't see this is a completely ludicrous suggestion?

well yes, it is a completely ludicrous suggestion, so ludicrous in fact that nobody has suggested it,

you seem to have completely misunderstood what noble was suggesting, which wasnt that we discount £50k from the cap, it was it only COSTS £50k on the cap

Leeds could go out and get say ASDA to sponsor the signing of Shane Williams, they will pay him £400k, only £50k of which would count on the cap

this would mean the risk represented to the club would only be £50k, on the cap

We have not brought them through because the clubs bar about three of them have completely failed to invest in player development and have gone for the quick fix of overseas players.

so why have those 3 clubs still struggled to bring through any one of sufficient quality

What you are advocating is another quick fix and a very expensive one. Flinging money at RU players is no different to giving it to overseas players. Yet again clubs do not have to develop their own talent. It is also an unrealistic one and thank goodness it is.

As to the English back line being better than any in RL at the moment whether they are or not they are not coming this way so instead of daft unrealistic notions of saying we should raid RU for them the game should concentrate on sorting it's own player development out.

Dave

no what im advocating we stop pretending RU doesnt exist and that things havent fundementally changed since they went professional,

we compete for the same player pool as RU, naturally talented three-quarters now have the option of playing RU and making a good if not better living from it, this means we lose plenty at youth level, and plenty who never even bother with us,

there is nothing wrong with trying to bring these players into the game, what you seem to be saying is that any player brought in from RU is a bad thing but this isnt the case, getting quality british players from anywhere is a good thing, one player per team isnt going to mean RL clubs will stop trying to develop young players,

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:13 am  

Cruncher wrote:

If this number for the Premiership is correct, but they then act to widen it even more in order to compete with the French, it won't matter what Noble says - Rugby League will cease to exist.

RU clubs cannot afford to increase thier salary cap. It is already pretty much ignored and they spend what they want - and they cant compete with French RU now.

Stade Francais has a playing budget of £20m - no club in either code in England can afford to compete with that.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:37 am  

I would go out of my way to sign players who would have a positive influence over team mates.
Tuigamala was an excellent signing and wonderful infuence over Jason Robinson, taking him from a very good player to world class. Ellery Hanley didn't drink and his fitness was legendary.
Leeds have Leuluai who says he is tea total and plays like a man possessed.
I'm glad that many Aussies have been refused visas because they would only have a negative influence on our game.
So, I don't mind where the players come from as long as they improve Wigan. I would look at ability, cost but also lifestyle.