Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:34 am  

moto748 wrote:

Yeah, a Cooper Cronk special, that one! Mind now, Bevan did similar just a few weeks ago, didn't he? I thought Smith was MoM by a mile.

Very true mate, although I thought Harry's was a level above even that. To be fair Bevan's kicking game came on leaps and bounds over the course of his tenure at 6. I also think we have barely scratched the surface with his progression in the position.

Next year could be something special if they both keep improving as they have.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:38 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Never seen Smith look as confident. It’s oozing out of him in all facets of his game. He’s looked in this series as though he’s a play ahead of everyone else.

I said in the last few games of the season that he's becoming one of those players that seems unrushed and to have that extra fraction of a second on the ball. Much was made of his game management and kicking game but I thought that the way he constantly played at the defensive line was just as impressive.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:12 am  

Just reading through this thread - there's so many points to comment on:

Wane -

1) How people still refer to him as one dimensional 'just get out there and bash 'em up' motivator staggers me. Everyone who's involved in him talk about attention to detail, culture, preparation. It may be possibly due to a few minutes of the behind the scenes program and now people think that's all he does.........?

2) In the last world cup we played some of the best attacking rugby i've seen in an England team - certainly since the days of Offiah playing. Yes, really disappointing semi final but it went to golden point and we lost following two consecutive mistakes in a format that makes winning very much a lucky dip.

Bringing a team together straight after the SL, players not played together, new half back pairing, playing against the biggest set of quality NRL proven forwards, in the wet with soft ground (unlike the NRL grounds when it rains hard) we're hardly likely to say 'just throw it around boys you'll be reet'. Smith has a great kicking game, takes the sting out of the forwards , play the game in their half etc, we used his strengths. SImple game plan for a bunch of players who only got together a week ago. In the 3rd, when we've had more time together, better conditions, we saw a much more dynamic and attacking attitude mixed with control when needed.

Seems to contradict the one- dimensional coach view.........

Newman comments:

Wane had mentioned Newman's poor discipline a few months ago and said he's not getting into the squad with that - he now gives credit to Leeds - which I take as they worked on his attitude and Wane seeing the improvement picked him for the squad. He's now had experience with NRL players and other top players - and like most people when you come into a higher performing group you learn from it and go back a better player. I can't see anything controversial in that ?

Squad Selection:

Injuries ruled many 1st choice out.
Mixture of experience and new - the stupid approach would be to play a team of international novices against a very good NRL based Tonga side, get thrashed, scar the new boys, they learn nothing and then they get dropped .....
He used the mid season game to introduce many more new faces - seems pretty smart to me?
Mixture of old heads who've been there, the younger players who came in learn from them in a winning , high performing envt - again sounds like a good approach. Debuts to a number of players. Only selection and decision making i would query was Faz.

Really don't understand the criticism over this series - sure we all want to see more of the 3rd game style, but surely people can see why that's not always possible especially when you come up against quality opposition that don't just sit back and watch you throw the ball around and admire.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:09 pm  

Somewhere in this topic somebody raised the issue regarding the dearth of fullbacks, another possibility is Farnworth.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:03 pm  

What I will give Wane immense credit for is the fact he’s built a squad that is tight knit. Looking at the social media posts, all of them refer to the last 3 weeks as being with a “special group”

I’ve just looked at some more pics of a night out where the whole squad are out. There doesn’t appear to be any “cliques” or lads only being mates with their own clubs players.

It’s a huge contrast from the likes of 2008 where Peacock and Wellens have both subsequently admitted that there was a huge divide between the Saints and Leeds players, something which they wish they’d have sorted at the time.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:23 pm  

All those Wigan fans quick to criticise Woolf for anything and everything would do well to read this article, in particular his comments on helping the English game. Excuse the pun but maybe he’s not the big bad Woolf after all…. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/23 ... onga-game/

All those Wigan fans quick to criticise Woolf for anything and everything would do well to read this article, in particular his comments on helping the English game. Excuse the pun but maybe he’s not the big bad Woolf after all…. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/23 ... onga-game/

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:46 pm  

Stu M wrote: All those Wigan fans quick to criticise Woolf for anything and everything would do well to read this article, in particular his comments on helping the English game. Excuse the pun but maybe he’s not the big bad Woolf after all…. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/23 ... onga-game/ I think it’s been more of a case of Wiganers not being prepared to buy some of the criticism aimed at Wane by Tongan…sorry St Helen’s fans but I’ve said before we all interpret things differently. I saw those comments and also some others by Woolf and you might not like it but I thought they were a bit condescending. Making a Tonga tour here sound like a favour is awful, when it should be a huge honour for them. I don’t think it’s in that article but he also stated that we shouldn’t expect Samoa here next year as Tonga are thinking they’ll play them over there instead. All seemed a bit like him trying to throw some weight around in retaliation for Wane ruffling his feathers.

Stu M wrote: All those Wigan fans quick to criticise Woolf for anything and everything would do well to read this article, in particular his comments on helping the English game. Excuse the pun but maybe he’s not the big bad Woolf after all…. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/23 ... onga-game/ I think it’s been more of a case of Wiganers not being prepared to buy some of the criticism aimed at Wane by Tongan…sorry St Helen’s fans but I’ve said before we all interpret things differently. I saw those comments and also some others by Woolf and you might not like it but I thought they were a bit condescending. Making a Tonga tour here sound like a favour is awful, when it should be a huge honour for them. I don’t think it’s in that article but he also stated that we shouldn’t expect Samoa here next year as Tonga are thinking they’ll play them over there instead. All seemed a bit like him trying to throw some weight around in retaliation for Wane ruffling his feathers.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Thu Nov 09, 2023 4:37 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I think it’s been more of a case of Wiganers not being prepared to buy some of the criticism aimed at Wane by Tongan…sorry St Helen’s fans but I’ve said before we all interpret things differently.

I saw those comments and also some others by Woolf and you might not like it but I thought they were a bit condescending. Making a Tonga tour here sound like a favour is awful, when it should be a huge honour for them. I don’t think it’s in that article but he also stated that we shouldn’t expect Samoa here next year as Tonga are thinking they’ll play them over there instead. All seemed a bit like him trying to throw some weight around in retaliation for Wane ruffling his feathers.

Looks like he was right - Samoa pulled out of the test series next year. Not ideal

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Thu Nov 09, 2023 4:48 pm  

The Reaper wrote:

Looks like he was right - Samoa pulled out of the test series next year. Not ideal

Far from it. I’m pretty much at a loss with the international game. We’re being cast aside so the NRL can control its players and keep them based on that side of the world, with as little travel and as much rest as possible.

Re: England Secure Test Series Win Over Tonga : Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:17 pm  

Wane must be fuming.