Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:25 am  

You mention Sinfield as one who didn't make an impact at international level but he was picked out by the great Wally Lewis as one to build the England team around. More importantly he got his chance despite perceived weaknesses particularly around his build and lack of pace. Marshy has been the best winger this year. I doubt any reasonable judge would argue against that. In fact he has outscored Tom Johnstone by more than 2 tries to 1! Now I'm not arguing against Johnstone being picked; far from it. I'm just saying any team "picked on form" would include the best winger in the comp, and that's currently Marshall.

Obviously, then, it isn't a team picked on form which then becomes an entirely separate discussion.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:34 am  

As an aside, Jon, you mention he hasn't been picked by 2 successive coaches but Bennet's choices were often bizarre and usually consisted of playing players out of position. He'd rather have a stand off floundering on the wing or a 2nd row offering little in attack at centre than picking actual centres or wingers! Plus Marshy wasn't among the best then. As for Wane, we all know he's size in the backs, mobility in the forwards. Always has been. Doesn't make it the only choice. Nor does it make it the right one.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:09 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

You mention Sinfield as one who didn't make an impact at international level but he was picked out by the great Wally Lewis as one to build the England team around. More importantly he got his chance despite perceived weaknesses particularly around his build and lack of pace. Marshy has been the best winger this year. I doubt any reasonable judge would argue against that. In fact he has outscored Tom Johnstone by more than 2 tries to 1! Now I'm not arguing against Johnstone being picked; far from it. I'm just saying any team "picked on form" would include the best winger in the comp, and that's currently Marshall.

Obviously, then, it isn't a team picked on form which then becomes an entirely separate discussion.

Is anyone saying the form team has been picked officially? I appreciate that’s the title of the article but a coach has to select a team he thinks is going to have the best chance of winning and for whatever reason Bennett and Wane have not picked him.

A coach always picks on style and coaches always have players they like and don’t. No coach will know more about Marshall than Wane and again I think it simply comes down to raw athleticism.

I’d also say and this can only ever be speculation would TJ, Handley or Ashton have the same number of tries, less or more were they playing for Wigan over their respective teams. It’s all speculation and ultimately what a coach at international level lives or dies by.

I genuinely hope Marshall gets a cap at some point, I think he deserves it, but like the current coaches I’m less confident with him on the wing vs a tier 1 side than I am some of the others who are ahead of him in selection at the moment and that comes down to style over form.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:41 am  

I feel for Marshall because I don't think players like Ash Handley or Matty Ashton (players picked ahead of him in recent months) are physical specimens, who will overly worry the major nations, so then to me you should be picking on form and Marshall is the form winger in super league. If he isn't getting in for this game I feel he can at least draw a line under any chances of getting caps with Wane in charge.

One thing I will say though is that internationals can never be picked solely on form and there are clear reasons why guys like Harry Smith and Micky Lewis get in above Marc Sneyd or why Tom Johnstone gets in ahead of Marshall. They have both international experience and have played well for England in the recent past. They also seem to thrive in big games, so it's never as straightforward as just picking a form team. The squad looks fine to me (outside of me thinking Marshall has been pretty unfortunate).

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:43 am  

So to cap it all Jon you agree that Marshy is the best SL winger and you love.
You also say that he deserves a cap this game would be Ideal for said cap.
You say the reason he did so many mtrs against Penrith is because we were on the back foot but isnt that even a better return as he got us out of trouble and kept going all game against the top team in Australia which he shouldnt have been able to as they are more athletic surely.
Leading top try scorer this season by a mile out paced the great athletic Makinson in the CC semi (the one who would have got in the side anyway).
Really he should have been given the chance against France,unless he is given the chance we will never know.
I wouldnt swap him for aany other Winger in SL.
I agree Young is the obvious choice for the other wing.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:46 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I feel for Marshall because I don't think players like Ash Handley or Matty Ashton (players picked ahead of him in recent months) are physical specimens, who will overly worry the major nations, so then to me you should be picking on form and Marshall is the form winger in super league. If he isn't getting in for this game I feel he can at least draw a line under any chances of getting caps with Wane in charge.

One thing I will say though is that internationals can never be picked solely on form and there are clear reasons why guys like Harry Smith and Micky Lewis get in above Marc Sneyd or why Tom Johnstone gets in ahead of Marshall. They have both international experience and have played well for England in the recent past. They also seem to thrive in big games, so it's never as straightforward as just picking a form team. The squad looks fine to me (outside of me thinking Marshall has been pretty unfortunate).

For me if Marshy doesn't get a chance we will never know how good or bad he is in a international game.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:52 am  

Let's just say that I'm happy Wane isn't picking the Wigan team anymore.

I'm sure he's useful in his "culture" role at the club, but I just feel sorry for anyone who has to sit in a meeting with him for longer than 15 mins.

I wonder how many gems he'll come out with this week.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:01 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I feel for Marshall because I don't think players like Ash Handley or Matty Ashton (players picked ahead of him in recent months) are physical specimens, who will overly worry the major nations, so then to me you should be picking on form and Marshall is the form winger in super league. If he isn't getting in for this game I feel he can at least draw a line under any chances of getting caps with Wane in charge.

One thing I will say though is that internationals can never be picked solely on form and there are clear reasons why guys like Harry Smith and Micky Lewis get in above Marc Sneyd or why Tom Johnstone gets in ahead of Marshall. They have both international experience and have played well for England in the recent past. They also seem to thrive in big games, so it's never as straightforward as just picking a form team. The squad looks fine to me (outside of me thinking Marshall has been pretty unfortunate).

I love the talk around Sneyd that you see online as if Wane is picking an old plodder in Harry Smith instead of him and that it is a complete disgrace.

It's almost like Harry Smith hasn't guided teams to a
LLS
Grand Final Win
Series sweep vs. Tonga
WCC Win
Challenge Cup win

all in the last 12 months, i never realised the lad was in such poor form!!

But Sneyd is scoring 3 MOS points regularly as a big fish in a mid table team so i suppose he must have him beat, silly me.

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:03 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

You mention Sinfield as one who didn't make an impact at international level but he was picked out by the great Wally Lewis as one to build the England team around. More importantly he got his chance despite perceived weaknesses particularly around his build and lack of pace. Marshy has been the best winger this year. I doubt any reasonable judge would argue against that. In fact he has outscored Tom Johnstone by more than 2 tries to 1! Now I'm not arguing against Johnstone being picked; far from it. I'm just saying any team "picked on form" would include the best winger in the comp, and that's currently Marshall.

Obviously, then, it isn't a team picked on form which then becomes an entirely separate discussion.

Was Wally missing the fact we had Scully, Faz and SoL all playing at the same time as Sinfield, and there was no way he was playing 13 over any of the other 3, hence why we tried to squash him in at either 6 or 9 for his goal kicking

Another example would be Ryan Hall. He scored tries for Leeds but was never (correct me if i am wrong) top try scorer in any season he played at Leeds, however, put him into an England / GB shirt and he was a different class altogether, he was meant to play in the big games, and suppose this is where the argument is at. Hall never topped the charts but was an international all day long, but Marshy can top the charts, but there is apprehension about him performing at that top level?

Re: Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel : Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:06 pm  

Jason65 wrote:

So to cap it all Jon you agree that Marshy is the best SL winger and you love.
You also say that he deserves a cap this game would be Ideal for said cap.
You say the reason he did so many mtrs against Penrith is because we were on the back foot but isnt that even a better return as he got us out of trouble and kept going all game against the top team in Australia which he shouldnt have been able to as they are more athletic surely.
Leading top try scorer this season by a mile out paced the great athletic Makinson in the CC semi (the one who would have got in the side anyway).
Really he should have been given the chance against France,unless he is given the chance we will never know.
I wouldnt swap him for aany other Winger in SL.
I agree Young is the obvious choice for the other wing.

I think on form he or Miski are probably the most effective wingers in SL.

I do think he deserves a cap and hope he gets one, Wane though is building towards a World Cup and this is a vital game in the prep for that then building again during the series against Samoa, if he isn’t part of those plans he shouldn’t be given a run in this test.

He did a lot of kick returns and carries as he always does probably more, did he get us out of trouble though? I’d say not as we were hardly out of our 40 metre are for long periods of the game.

Mackinson not been selected and isn’t the athlete he was so not sure how that’s relevant age is catching up with him.

In regards SL we put a hefty offer in for TJ before he moved to Catalans and I believe made enquiries again this year so he’s definitely rated by the club and coaches.