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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:45 am  
Pieman wrote:
he just make up a rule number? All terminations count on the cap also.

I didn't think they did if it was done before the season begins. I.e. Hicks at Wire last year.
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:41 pm  
inside_man wrote:
I didn't think they did if it was done before the season begins. I.e. Hicks at Wire last year.



It would if it was Wigan.

Surely you know the rules by now. :wink:
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:12 pm  
inside_man wrote:
I didn't think they did if it was done before the season begins. I.e. Hicks at Wire last year.


SL contract years start on a certain date, think it's either 1 November or 1 December and this is the date used for cap purposes, when the season starts is irrelevant.
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:52 pm  
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Freddy will get another deal from us


Certainly a one year deal.

He was impressive on his return back from injury - http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player?hs1=2011&hp1=2304&hs2=2011&hp2=923&stat=tries&season=2011
Tricky Dicky wrote:
Freddy will get another deal from us


Certainly a one year deal.

He was impressive on his return back from injury - http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player?hs1=2011&hp1=2304&hs2=2011&hp2=923&stat=tries&season=2011
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:21 pm  
Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:
SL contract years start on a certain date, think it's either 1 November or 1 December and this is the date used for cap purposes, when the season starts is irrelevant.

Then how were Wire able to replace Hicks on the cap with Monaghan? Hicks had definately signed a new contract and i thought at the time that it was stated if it was done out of season then the salary wouldn't count on the cap?
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:30 pm  
inside_man wrote:
Then how were Wire able to replace Hicks on the cap with Monaghan? Hicks had definately signed a new contract and i thought at the time that it was stated if it was done out of season then the salary wouldn't count on the cap?


Depends on the termination conditions and payments which have to be Ok'd by the RFL as reasonable and which would need to make sure they didn't go over the cap in the year they related to. You can't just pay players off and not have it effect your cap.

The salary cap year for this season started last November/December and runs for a year up to October/November this year.
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:11 pm  
inside_man wrote:
Then how were Wire able to replace Hicks on the cap with Monaghan? Hicks had definately signed a new contract and i thought at the time that it was stated if it was done out of season then the salary wouldn't count on the cap?


Because when Warrington and Hicks parted ways it was under previous salary cap regulations; hence my reference to para 6.1.4 which states:

"Where the proposed transaction is a termination of a Playing Contract in accordance with Clause 6.1.2, but in circumstances where such termination takes place prior to the first Salary Cap Relevant Match of the relevant Salary Cap Year, provided such termination is approved by the RSCM, the Player’s original Salary Cap Value shall thereafter be disregarded for purposes of calculating the Club’s Aggregate First Tier and/or Aggregate Second Tier
Liability.

Comment to Clause 6.1.4: Where a Playing Contract with a Player terminates prior to the first Salary Cap Relevant Match of the relevant Salary Cap Year (ie before the Club has had the opportunity to receive any playing services from the Player), then the Club will not need retain a Salary Cap Value for that Player in any subsequent Salary Cap Years."

I read the comment referring to before receiving any playing services applying to Hicks new contract and therefore no future years salary cap value applied.


The current regulations that Wigan/Leeds Andy is referring to do actually, to my reading, say that any player whose contract is terminated is then removed from the relevant tier of the salary cap (eg not part of the club's salary cap): para 6.1.3 (which if Wigan/Leeds Andy hadn't been too busy being a smartarse could have read as one para above 6.1.4) states:

"On approval of a Termination Payment referred to in clause 6.1.2 above, the Player’s original Salary Cap Value shall thereafter be disregarded for the purposes of calculating his previous Club’s Aggregate First Tier Liability and/or Aggregate Second Tier Liability."

Strangely it appears that any pay-off may now be levied against the player's new club as para 6.1.3 goes on to say:

"In relation to his new Club (if applicable), the Player’s Salary Cap Value will be calculated as normal in accordance with the Regulations unless, in very unusual circumstances, the transaction is one:

(a) that the RSCM believes, acting reasonably, to operate against the overriding spirit and purpose of the salary cap (as set out in clause 1.1 above), and

(b) where the Player’s new Salary Cap Value is significantly less than it was at his previous Club and/or where the Termination Payment involved in the transaction in question is significantly in excess of the usual tax free termination payment permitted by HMRC (noting clause 1.6 above).

In any such unusual circumstances, the RSCM is hereby empowered to agree a different (higher) Salary Cap Value with the Club in question and, ultimately, in the event that the Club proceeds to register the Player without such agreement, to apply a different Salary Cap Value to the Player at his new Club".


Obviously all the above is subject to ratification by Wigan/Andy Leeds.
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:57 pm  
Paul Youane wrote:
The current regulations that Wigan/Leeds Andy is referring to do actually, to my reading, say that any player whose contract is terminated is then removed from the relevant tier of the salary cap (eg not part of the club's salary cap): para 6.1.3 (which if Wigan/Leeds Andy hadn't been too busy being a smartarse could have read as one para above 6.1.4) states:

"On approval of a Termination Payment referred to in clause 6.1.2 above, the Player’s original Salary Cap Value shall thereafter be disregarded for the purposes of calculating his previous Club’s Aggregate First Tier Liability and/or Aggregate Second Tier Liability."


That's not specific to terminated players as I've had to point out to you before when you tried to make out Gleeson was still counting on our cap. I suggest you go back and look how the salary cap values are worked out. Don't worry I've read the para before as well. Perhaps if you hadn't tried to be a smartarse and bothered to read the current year's rules, you'll wouldn't have embarrassed yourself by saying termination payments don't count against the cap.

Paul Youane wrote:
Strangely it appears that any pay-off may now be levied against the player's new club as para 6.1.3 goes on to say:

"In relation to his new Club (if applicable), the Player’s Salary Cap Value will be calculated as normal in accordance with the Regulations unless, in very unusual circumstances, the transaction is one:

(a) that the RSCM believes, acting reasonably, to operate against the overriding spirit and purpose of the salary cap (as set out in clause 1.1 above), and

(b) where the Player’s new Salary Cap Value is significantly less than it was at his previous Club and/or where the Termination Payment involved in the transaction in question is significantly in excess of the usual tax free termination payment permitted by HMRC (noting clause 1.6 above).

In any such unusual circumstances, the RSCM is hereby empowered to agree a different (higher) Salary Cap Value with the Club in question and, ultimately, in the event that the Club proceeds to register the Player without such agreement, to apply a different Salary Cap Value to the Player at his new Club".


Nothing strange at all it's pretty clear they are trying to stop clubs pulling a fast one.

Paul Youane wrote:
Obviously all the above is subject to ratification by Wigan/Andy Leeds.


Done. I suggest some more study.
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:30 pm  
Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:
That's not specific to terminated players as I've had to point out to you before when you tried to make out Gleeson was still counting on our cap. I suggest you go back and look how the salary cap values are worked out. Don't worry I've read the para before as well. Perhaps if you hadn't tried to be a smartarse and bothered to read the current year's rules, you'll wouldn't have embarrassed yourself by saying termination payments don't count against the cap.


I think you will find that Termination Payments do relate to players whose contracts are terminated and covered by the RFL's standard temination agreement. How salary cap values are calculated are irrelevant when the player in question is discarded from the club's first or second tier.

Do you not agree that when a player's contact is terminated in accordance with 6.1.2 and 6.1.3 then they are removed from that's club salary cap calculation? If not then please explain what 6.1.3 means.
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Re: Rumours and signings v8 : Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:32 pm  
Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:
Nothing strange at all it's pretty clear they are trying to stop clubs pulling a fast one.


So do you agree that if a club was found to be operating against the spirit of the cap then it is an act constituting a salary cap breach and punishable as such? Some others around here seem to think otherwise.
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