Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sun May 05, 2013 5:13 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

The young players at Wigan get paid a hell of a lot more now than they did when Whelan and Lindsay were running the club.

They may do (and when things like inflation have to be taken into account it is hard to judge) but it is still little and I dont really see the relevance it has to why a young player should be loyal. Players certainly couldnt care less what a previous administration paid and at the end of the day young players are still earning little for a full time professional sportsman. Lenegan has done a great job in balancing the cap more fairly and drives a hard bargain when it comes to contracts etc but what he wants as an owner and what a player wants are two totally different things.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sun May 05, 2013 6:46 pm  

Famous wrote:

They may do (and when things like inflation have to be taken into account it is hard to judge) but it is still little and I dont really see the relevance it has to why a young player should be loyal. Players certainly couldnt care less what a previous administration paid and at the end of the day young players are still earning little for a full time professional sportsman. Lenegan has done a great job in balancing the cap more fairly and drives a hard bargain when it comes to contracts etc but what he wants as an owner and what a player wants are two totally different things.

I don't blame them if they want to leave either. Everyone has the right to earn as much money as they can. But to say the young players at the club are on next to nothing is wide of the mark.

[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sun May 05, 2013 11:05 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

I don't blame them if they want to leave either. Everyone has the right to earn as much money as they can. But to say the young players at the club are on next to nothing is wide of the mark.

I have no idea what you consider to be not next to nothing so what sort of money are we talking then?

It wouldn't surprise me if the pre-salary cap days wage of a young Shaun Edwards was more than most of them. And I don't mean adjusted for inflation either!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 06, 2013 9:17 am  

DaveO wrote:

I have no idea what you consider to be not next to nothing so what sort of money are we talking then?

It wouldn't surprise me if the pre-salary cap days wage of a young Shaun Edwards was more than most of them. And I don't mean adjusted for inflation either!

About two to three times what the best U19s were on under Mo and Whelan. And that comes from one of their fathers. And no, I obviously can't prove it, so feel free not to believe me if that suits you.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 06, 2013 9:38 am  

I know for a fact that under mo the academy lads were paid 11k a year by the club.

They then had an opportunity/ arrangement with the TA to earn an extra 11k by signing up there. Granted I don't know what that arrangement entailed or who got benefit from it.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 06, 2013 10:45 am  

A neighbour of mine whos son has recently signed under 19 terms with Everton football gets £350 a week plus £125 living expenses, which equates to around 24/25k a year. Compare this to the rugby youngsters, and the difference in the amounts of money each sport generates, then rugby league under 19s dont get paid too badly.

Matt

[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 06, 2013 11:30 pm  

Cruncher wrote: About two to three times what the best U19s were on under Mo and Whelan. And that comes from one of their fathers. And no, I obviously can't prove it, so feel free not to believe me if that suits you. I am not going to ask you to prove it but rather tell me some actual figures i.e what were the best U19s on under Mo and Whelan? Then we will know if being on "two or three times" such a salary salary equates to a good enough wage or not and that is what matters. Bare in mind the club is limited to what it can pay as wages outside the top 25 earners and as soon as an U19 player plays in a salary cap relevant match (assuming he isn't a top 25 earner already) his wages eat into this figure. A club is limited to a total of £75K for such "second tier players" (that is for all of them not each!). This is explained here: http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/rules/interactive_operational_rules?section=E1 There doesn't seem much scope to me to pay U19's say a salary of £20K. Four of them on that wage who get a game in SL would take Wigan past the salary cap limit. The only way round it seems to be make them one of the top 25 earners at the club and so they get a share of £1.6m.

Cruncher wrote: About two to three times what the best U19s were on under Mo and Whelan. And that comes from one of their fathers. And no, I obviously can't prove it, so feel free not to believe me if that suits you. I am not going to ask you to prove it but rather tell me some actual figures i.e what were the best U19s on under Mo and Whelan? Then we will know if being on "two or three times" such a salary salary equates to a good enough wage or not and that is what matters. Bare in mind the club is limited to what it can pay as wages outside the top 25 earners and as soon as an U19 player plays in a salary cap relevant match (assuming he isn't a top 25 earner already) his wages eat into this figure. A club is limited to a total of £75K for such "second tier players" (that is for all of them not each!). This is explained here: http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/rules/interactive_operational_rules?section=E1 There doesn't seem much scope to me to pay U19's say a salary of £20K. Four of them on that wage who get a game in SL would take Wigan past the salary cap limit. The only way round it seems to be make them one of the top 25 earners at the club and so they get a share of £1.6m.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 07, 2013 12:10 am  

DaveO wrote: I am not going to ask you to prove it but rather tell me some actual figures i.e what were the best U19s on under Mo and Whelan? Then we will know if being on "two or three times" such a salary salary equates to a good enough wage or not and that is what matters. Bare in mind the club is limited to what it can pay as wages outside the top 25 earners and as soon as an U19 player plays in a salary cap relevant match (assuming he isn't a top 25 earner already) his wages eat into this figure. A club is limited to a total of £75K for such "second tier players" (that is for all of them not each!). This is explained here: http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/rules/interactive_operational_rules?section=E1 There doesn't seem much scope to me to pay U19's say a salary of £20K. Four of them on that wage who get a game in SL would take Wigan past the salary cap limit. The only way round it seems to be make them one of the top 25 earners at the club and so they get a share of £1.6m. Shall I ring the lad's dad up and ask him to give me the exact details of his salary because someone on the internet wants to know? Or shall I just ask him to give me a rough ballpark figure? Unlike you, I'm prepared to take him at his word without demanding a set of facts and figures. However, I've already given you a get-out. I told you in advance that I can't offer proof, so if you decide not to believe that IL has restructured the wages at the club and the leading junior players are now much better off as a result, okay. But I strongly advise against continuing down this road which is clearly going to lead you to deciding that, just because Mo didn't like the salary cap and Ian Lenagan does, that means things were actually better under Mo and Whelan. They weren't - and don't take my word for that. Ask anyone at the club.

DaveO wrote: I am not going to ask you to prove it but rather tell me some actual figures i.e what were the best U19s on under Mo and Whelan? Then we will know if being on "two or three times" such a salary salary equates to a good enough wage or not and that is what matters. Bare in mind the club is limited to what it can pay as wages outside the top 25 earners and as soon as an U19 player plays in a salary cap relevant match (assuming he isn't a top 25 earner already) his wages eat into this figure. A club is limited to a total of £75K for such "second tier players" (that is for all of them not each!). This is explained here: http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/rules/interactive_operational_rules?section=E1 There doesn't seem much scope to me to pay U19's say a salary of £20K. Four of them on that wage who get a game in SL would take Wigan past the salary cap limit. The only way round it seems to be make them one of the top 25 earners at the club and so they get a share of £1.6m. Shall I ring the lad's dad up and ask him to give me the exact details of his salary because someone on the internet wants to know? Or shall I just ask him to give me a rough ballpark figure? Unlike you, I'm prepared to take him at his word without demanding a set of facts and figures. However, I've already given you a get-out. I told you in advance that I can't offer proof, so if you decide not to believe that IL has restructured the wages at the club and the leading junior players are now much better off as a result, okay. But I strongly advise against continuing down this road which is clearly going to lead you to deciding that, just because Mo didn't like the salary cap and Ian Lenagan does, that means things were actually better under Mo and Whelan. They weren't - and don't take my word for that. Ask anyone at the club.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 07, 2013 9:31 am  

I know of one ex academy player who was one of Wigans top appearance makers back in 2008 and his salary was just under £9K.

[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Tue May 07, 2013 10:22 am  

Cruncher wrote:

Shall I ring the lad's dad up and ask him to give me the exact details of his salary because someone on the internet wants to know? Or shall I just ask him to give me a rough ballpark figure?

Unlike you, I'm prepared to take him at his word without demanding a set of facts and figures. However, I've already given you a get-out. I told you in advance that I can't offer proof, so if you decide not to believe that IL has restructured the wages at the club and the leading junior players are now much better off as a result, okay.

But I strongly advise against continuing down this road which is clearly going to lead you to deciding that, just because Mo didn't like the salary cap and Ian Lenagan does, that means things were actually better under Mo and Whelan. They weren't - and don't take my word for that. Ask anyone at the club.

As I suspected you clearly have no basis whatsoever for your posts on this topic.

You say junior players are on two or three times what they were under Mo yet have no idea what that was so clearly have no idea if they are paid well or not.

It's the net amount they get paid that counts. Saying its two or three times what they were paid is a completely meaningless statement. Just like your posts on the matter.