I thought Saints played how Saints play. Tough through the middle, defended for their lives and I just don’t see that attack really changing because it’s been nothing more than workmanlike for a couple of years now. I’d have to see the stats but Saints seemed to make far less, errors, didn’t give as many penalties away and didn’t have a man sin binned and one sent off. I just don’t see how Saints make massive changes to that performance yesterday. It was the usual grinding effort and it just about got them home playing against 12 men for 25 minutes of the game and against a side who kept on committing self harm.



As for Wigan, cut out the errors, improve the discipline and that makes a huge difference straight away. You automatically improve keeping 13 on the field. The attack was off, with too many passes missing the mark and I think that has been the case all season outside of Penrith, with the players focus not being quite there. The pitches drying out will make a far bigger difference to Wigan than it will Saints also. Ultimately I just thought Saints were far closer to their best than Wigan were, so for us to get we close to the finishing line as we did gives me loads of confidence going forward. It won’t be easy for Wigan to turn Saints over in any game but yesterday didn’t make me think it’ll any bigger challenge than it was before the game. I actually thought Saints would be more dominant in the game going in to it.

Peets use of that 17th man is the only thing I ever feel like I can criticise during his time as head coach. If you’re putting a guy on the bench simply on the basis that you’ll give him minutes if the game is comfortable, you may as well put Hampshire on there and have him cover fullback, wing and halfback.



I can get the Leeming minutes though. Brad O’Neill was immense and I’d have wanted him on the field as well. Mago has had a great start to the season but I again can see the reasons behind his limited minutes. These games look a bit too quick for him sadly. He’s got an important part to play this season but if Peet gets a full squad to choose from, in a big game, I still think Mago will miss out.

With all due respect to Farrell and Isa who've been tremendous servants to the club I'll be bitterly disappointed if Walters and Nsemba aren't our first choice 2nd row come the back end of the season

Yet you don't apply the same reasoning to this game with regards to possible improvement. Strange.

The interchange bench in general turned out to be a bit of a disaster for Wigan. Dupree comes on and gets sinbinned, Leeming makes two errors and is subbed again after 15 minutes, Mago again with limited minutes and looked to struggle with the pace and Nsemba wasn't used. I'd have to look at the stats but I'd be surprised if we even used all of the 8 interchanges as well. Fix that and take out the cards and we're in a better position straight away.



Ultimately there looks very little between the sides atm. Saints with Paasi to come back look like they may still have the edge in the forwards but Wigan's pace will surely come into play more as the season goes on.

This is just impressions from the game as I haven't had chance to watch it on TV yet.



It's a long time since I've come away from a defeat with such a feeling of optimism as I did this one. Before the game I asked that, win or lose, this was the game we started to consign the WCC to the history books and I think we did that. The intensity was up several levels from what it's been since that game and although we are clearly a good way off our best yet, that was always going to be the case playing a third of the game with only 12 men. I find it strange (as above) that Saints fans have spent the last few weeks saying that the only reason they lost against Salford was the red card yet seem unable to apply the same reasoning in this game! Maybe Saints are Wigan's Salford





The only area of concern remains our discipline. The reffing was too one sided for mine, especially in that early period where it seemed 6 agains where reserved only for Saints (I'd love to see the timings of the play the balls where he penalised Wigan and compare them to similar ones he didn't penalise Saints for) but it's still in our own hands to be better. Sort that out and we win that game, no doubt whatsoever.



I thought the 2 cards were the difference in this game, particularly coming at the back end of each half when fatigue is at its greatest and when we generally score tries. Both aspects were adversely affected. The fact that Saints only scored in the final minutes when we were gassed speaks volumes for me. The scoreline completely flatters them.



Onwards and upwards. Both teams will be there or thereabouts when the trophies are handed out. I just feel we'll have too much for them by that point should we meet then.

Still not watched it back but thought Farrell was outstanding yesterday. He was everywhere.

The pitch was a bit heavy and I always think that negates Field and French as I think they are more suited to hard pitches.Mind you,you could play us in a swamp and still batter us.

As i am a boring barsteward i thought i would record our errors & discipline issues as i watched the game on the tele this morning. I felt it was yet again at an unacceptable level when at the game yesterday as it has been all season.



It is something we really need to be working on, as the periods when we behave and control the ball we where very competitive.



2 min - Byrne clear offside on kick

5 min - Field tackle in air

7 min - Wardle knock on (more forward pass imo)

10 min - French forward pass - terrible pass in general

11 min - 6 again Farrell holding down

11 min - 6 again Thompson second attempt, O'Neill prob should have given another one for holding down a couple of tackles later aswell.

14 min - O'Neill high tackle off the kick

16 min - Ellis high tackle

18 min - Field knock on

24 - penalty for offside Ellis - would have been a Field knock on otherwise

28 - Dupree leading with elbow - fair yellow imo

35 - Farrell knock on

45 - Leeming knock on

49 - Leeming knock on (rip by Clarke to be fair)



Notice how we have a 13 min spell without any errors or discipline issues - this is about the only time during the game i feel we are on top and coincidentally when we score our only points. Just thought that was worth pointing out.



62 - High tackle with shoulder Byrne - fair red card imo.

63 - Smith holding down 6 again

77 - Smith high tackle



To be fair we cleaned up a lot in our second half and was much more competitive generally for it, we just ran out of gas near the end, we gave ourselves a lot of extra work in that first half + the cards and it took its toll in the end.



I am also going to throw an error in for Peet, not playing Nsemba, even when we went down to 12 men for the last 18 mins was criminal in my eyes. That big body and fresh legs would have been invaluable at that moment, not to mention the different dimension he brings to the game that we needed.



If Peet can't trust a player's involvment in a high stakes period of the game when our backs are against the wall, then that player shouldn't be in the 17 man squad at all. Would he have trusted Hill more? If so he should have played him instead, even if i feel Nsemba earned his chance vs. Sheffield.

Am I missing something? I said I can see plenty of improvement in both sides did I not?

You said you thought there was similar room for improvement in both teams. I didn't see you playing with 12 men unless I missed it. By that reasoning Salford can improve as much as you the next time you meet. Do you think that's the case?

Is this forum completely unmoderated these days? How is this post still here?

Go and take your sensitivity somewhere else.



I'm sorry that I'm not a ref sh@gger like loads on here. Kendall is a see you next Tuesday of the highest order. In fact I'd go as far as to say he's a criminal.

I was thinking this myself, i normally agree and like a lot of SP's posts but they have been pushing the line with regards to referee's recently and went completely off the rails last night in a few posts that should be removed imo.



Maybe a good suggestion to SP would be to take a few dayd break from the forum and come back with a more level head?

I'm clear of the beer and I'm 100% doubling down on my posts from yesterday.



I honestly can't see how people don't see how biased he was yesterday. If he's going to send Wigan players off en masse and not do anything for players in a RedVee, then he deserves everything he gets & more.



He ruined what should have been a good day. Sell out, almost two fully strength sides, pubs in town full of fans etc. Instead he decided it was all about him.

I think Havard, Cooper and especially Walters will play a massive role in our chances of success. One thing I thought yesterday did for me was to give clarity on our best side (which is basically just deciding the make up of the pack). Mago deserves all the praise in the world for his efforts in getting fitter and his form and there are plenty of games there for him but if we had a full squad tomorrow and a big game to play, I think Walters comes in for Isa, Havard for Mago and even though I probably wouldn’t go with 3 props on the bench, I think we’d see Cooper for Nsemba.

Well no it seems like you didn’t really follow the conversation. We were talking about scope for improvement for the teams at large, to do that you’d be talking about how the game was going at 13 v 13 which is what I was doing and I assume Nicky was as well. If you want to talk about room for improvement as the game was at 13 v 12 then yeah… of course there’s more room for improvement from you. You were also much further behind us when you were down to 12 lol. It doesn’t make sense to approach it from that perspective

I love Willie Isa (don’t ever miss the surname of that sentence), he’s been brilliant for us and has brought great value but I do agree on him sadly. His age is showing and there isn’t enough threat or ability to make ground on that right side currently without KPP or his replacement in Walters. I’ve been hugely impressed with Adam Keighran but in a grind like yesterday I also thought we missed Toby Kings ability to make ground. Keighran is a different sort of centre and that’s fine but you can’t then lose meter makers in other areas.

You mean we were winning when it was 13 v 13 despite having been down to 12 men for 10 minutes at that point? Or do you mean we were clearly getting on top prior to the Byrne sending off? Perhaps you mean you couldn't score when we were first down to 12 and only managed to score a try in the dying minutes despite both those advantages?



Again, I'll ask you the same question: Do you think Salford will have the same room for improvement as yourselves when you next meet?

Yeah, bit bizarre to not bring him on when you were down to 12, when an injection of energy was clearly needed. As you say, he’s also a beast of a man so could cause some problems and make some much needed metres. Cant really get my head around what Peet was thinking there

And you are fully entitled to your opinions to the current stanfard of refereeing and rules, but i feel you could articulate it much better than the personal insults you are currently throwing around.



For the record, i think Kendall was pretty fair yesterday, both teams got away with a couple of things but it balanced out. In fact, he could have been much harsher with us in 6 agains and penalties if he had wanted to, our discipline is a big issue currently.



I also don't like the direction that the rules are heading in, Dupree's should have been a penalty only & Byrne's a yellow, but under the current rulesets the ref's hands are tied so i feel the cards he gave out were justified. Things will only get worse next season, i forsee disaster with the armpit rule.

Bro what the are you talking about lmao



I was asking Nicky why he felt Wigan had more improvement in them than saints did as I don’t see where it’s coming from. It largely seems based on our attack not being very good but when it was 13 v 13, you managed to make a grand total of one chance in the entire game which wasn’t down to the team but rather a piece of brilliance from an individual.



I said I could quite easily see plenty of room for improvement from both sides based on what we saw yesterday.



I legitimately don’t have a clue what it is that you’re trying to argue. You think you were the better team at 13 v 13? If so I’d like to know what that was based on considering we had more territory than you, made more metres and created more chances and line breaks

That's not strictly true. He could still be more even handed (under the current rules the accidental head clash is a card etc.) and, it's been said that the video ref thought there was mitigation in the Byrne sending off and it should have been a yellow. Those types of decisions are on the ref. They're hands aren't tied. It's down to interpretation.

NK was saying we had more improvement in us based on the game yesterday. Not on selected bits of it. On the whole game! You can't pick out the bits where we were 13 v 13 and argue it as if the periods of being down to 12 has no effect. And despite all your statistics we were winning that game until we got a man sent off.



Please answer the question asked. Do you think Salford have as much improvement in them as yourselves the next time you meet? If you keep avoiding the question then there really is no point in these exchanges.

That's fair, under the current rules i agree the head clash is a sending off. First i have heard about the video ref thing, not sure i agree with him.